commercialist hip hop in america, truths & myths..

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:26 pm

stinky wrote:
If you really think these are representative of our society in general, or even the club scene you've been mislead. And it you think the dudes have no role in creating these skanky stereotypes that young kids emulate, you are wrong.
Go out to any club in Miami, or NY, LA, etc... I think you'll disagree. Hmmm.. I've been to all types of clubs, and i'll honestly say that i've never seen that level of debauchery in any european club i've been to. Ever see "In the VIP"... man, i've seen that kind of stuff in AnyNightClub.USA, but not once have i seen that in Amsterdam, London, etc.. I went to the Edge, people shaggin left and right.. after the Edge closed down (Firestone), same thing.. Crobar NY, Miami, seen it. Chili Pepper, Ft. Lauderdale.. i saw a girl bent over the bar being eaten from behind with a crowd standing around her... that was only one of the time that i was there, and that was 8 years ago. How many times have you gone to a club and it was Booty Night? Every girl wants to get up there, and almost every one either isn't wearing underwear, or moves it to the side for your enjoyment.. What about wet T-Shirt Contests where they're wearing floss by the end of their strip (and pulling to the side) and this isn't even at clubs but a podunk bars...

I'm not trying to bash here, but i think you're either sheltered or just not observant to these types of things..

I guess you missed most of what I said--you are right, there are scandalous clubs all over that are like your description. But what I'm saying is that not all younger people go to these clubs, like me and everyone I know and associate with don't go to clubs. Maybe it has to do with age, or what type of music you like, or where and how you were raised, and if you are involved with someone. But not everyone goes to clubs like that, or would stay there long if they saw skanky shit like that going down. I guess I can't really speak that much for European clubs, as I've only been to a handful back in the day.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:34 pm

i'm sorry, i don't think you and your friends are in the mainstream. Mainstream america listens to hiphop. The clubs that i'm talking about aren't scandalous. They are the best of the best in they're respective cities. I used to live down in South Beach. I've seen this shit day and night, not just in SoBe, but in every city i go to, i've tasted the club scene. I honestly think most clubs in the US are a microcosm of what happens at Mardi Gras in NO. No not everybody is like that, but the point is it's definitely more prominent here than anywhere else i've been in my travels, even Singapore, where you're getting harrassed by ever hooker coming out of the woodwork.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:57 pm

stinky wrote:i'm sorry, i don't think you and your friends are in the mainstream. Mainstream america listens to hiphop. The clubs that i'm talking about aren't scandalous. They are the best of the best in they're respective cities. I used to live down in South Beach. I've seen this shit day and night, not just in SoBe, but in every city i go to, i've tasted the club scene. I honestly think most clubs in the US are a microcosm of what happens at Mardi Gras in NO. No not everybody is like that, but the point is it's definitely more prominent here than anywhere else i've been in my travels, even Singapore, where you're getting harrassed by ever hooker coming out of the woodwork.

I guess it really just depends where you are coming from, what you listen to, where you live, to each their own. I listen to mostly hip hop and hip hop influenced stuff these days, but I doubt much of it gets played in these clubs of yours. Little Brother, The Grouch, Living Legends, Zion I, Murs, Wagon Christ, Bonobo, Boc, Blockhead, 9th Wonder, etc. Sure big cities like NYC, miami, etc. are gonna be the most liberal and blatant in these reguards. Less than 50% of america's population lives in cities larger than 250,000 people. Even in urban areas if you were to add up all the people that go to clubs like that once a month, it would probably be less than half of the people in that age group, so it really isn't representative of the society as a whole, just a segment of it. Just because "mainstream" america listens to hip hop, doesn't mean everyone emulates it--I mean c'mon the audience mtv and top 40 albums are aimed at are like 13-20 year olds that can't even get into clubs. If the majority of young people in our society participate in wet t-shirt contests and table dancing sans underwear, then the younger generation is totally going to screw our country up.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:05 pm

again, quandry...we are not talking about american women at large, we are talking - obviously - about the club going ones. (and how they act)

while your statistics might show that these hip-hop hunnies might only represent 0.001% of American Society (or whatever it works out to), the fact is they represent a much larger percentage of the club going society.

anyways, seems stinky knows what he's talking about

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:06 pm

kramerica wrote:That's like my apartment everyday.

But in regards to the "women in the US are objects", I have to say that I always felt some european nations were much more chauvenistic and sexist. Every girl I traveled with to Italy, Spain, or Greece just got mauled by greasy womanizers. I had never seen such lack of class.

America has its vices, but it's not alone in that one nor is it the worst by any measure. I blame advertisers and network executives.

The big difference in Europe is if the men typically see a woman with another man it's disgraceful for them to really shout or say anything other then a sleazy wink or something.

In America it's wither or not the guy thinks he can kick your ass or 'take' you which will determine what gets said or what dosen't. Now if there are a pack of dudes and your strolling by and your girl looks anything even remotely good then your going to hear something.

As for the clubs, yeah the dancing happens just like in the videos. 'Cept the girls don't look that 'good'. I mean a girl can just be hit looking just as long as she has clevage showing (which they always do) and there will be a flock around her. Speaking from experience, you almost always have to question how much your drinking and never lower your standards (presumbing you have any to begin with) or your going to be sick in the morning trying to think of how to get this girl out of your bed. I've seen some off the funniest shit happen in regards to this...

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:09 pm

#1 Alot of what you listen to is underground.. Plus, you are older.. you're not spoonfed.

#2 You're statistics aren't taking Urban Sprawl into consideration. You think a majority of america lives in podunk USA? Nope. They live outside of major cities, like in the surrounding areas... not necessarily suburbs, more like extensions of the major cities, which are the cities that's you're talking about with population less that 250,000

13-20 year olds that can't even get into clubs

Law doesn't mean shit.. i was going to clubs at 15.

If the majority of young people in our society participate in wet t-shirt contests and table dancing sans underwear, then the younger generation is totally going to screw our country up.

Are you trying to make our point? My father is almost 80. He regularly marvels at all the stuff that you can watch on TV today, and only 50 years ago, you would've never believed you'd see this stuff in public, much less on TV.

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:13 pm

D K wrote:i mixed monitors at a latin american festival on sunday...
there was a rap act where one guy came out holding an infant in one arm
and began slapping the crowd-facing bouncing ass of an 18-year-old dancer...
he then proceeded to sit the baby on the bouncing ass, slapping it again.
so, yes, people are that fucking ignorant in america.

This may be the best reply ever.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:15 pm

haha, ya

gotta love it, makes me think of ODB

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:18 pm

thelike5 wrote:
D K wrote:i mixed monitors at a latin american festival on sunday...
there was a rap act where one guy came out holding an infant in one arm
and began slapping the crowd-facing bouncing ass of an 18-year-old dancer...
he then proceeded to sit the baby on the bouncing ass, slapping it again.
so, yes, people are that fucking ignorant in america.
This may be the best reply ever.

I mean he could have stopped at "I mixed monitors at a Latin America festival last Sunday"...

That pretty much paints the picture to me.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:24 pm

i recall seeing a ludacris video, not sure what it was called but the hook was 'pooty, pooty poppin'

heh, classy. reeeal classy.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:25 pm

Has anyone ever seen these movies:

Kids

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113540/

Requiem for a Dream

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0180093/

Havoc

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285175/

Bully

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242193/

Obviously, alot of it is sensationalistic drama, but i do have to say that i get chills watching these movies. They mimic alot of US society. Kids takes place in NY and when it first came out, everyone i knew couldn't believe how it was just like how we grew up. Requiem speaks for itself. Havok is new, and it's the closest you'll get to this HipHop discussion we're having, but it's definitely a reflection of this... and Bully.. Wow... alot of it takes place in my old neighborhoods.. These movies are definitely what's going on today, yesterday, and will only continue to get worse tomorrow..

I firmly believe this...

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:32 pm

Here in Cleveland, Ohio you see these guys walking around listening to that shit on there walkmans (not ipods!) with $150 Nikes on and not a pot to piss in.

And one question... how much longer is this style here in the states of saggin ass jeans and football/basketall jerseys going to last for? I mean most fashion trends last only a couple of years or so but this shit has been going on for about 15 years.

I just don't get it. People that dress that way and act that way are the first ones who bitch about not being able to get jobs but fantasise that Ludicris or Busta Rhymes will take them somewhere.

There is some serious subliminal mesages going on with that music!

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:32 pm

seen kids, thought it was both a good flick and I got a sense of truth from it. good sound too, from what I recall...all round quality cinematic experience imo

reqieum for a dream I saw at a film festival, and the sound guys really drove the volume up at key moments....good way to watch it. Anyways, as you say its sensationalist - which is my major criticism of it , one I cant bury since its such a mainstream 'drugs' movie - a topic I take seriously

i thought bully sucked ass, and got the impression that the director is more perv then anthropologist. Just thought it sucked all-round....tho I can see if it reflects something thats going and you are aware of this its probably a much better watch

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:35 pm

thelike5 wrote:And one question... how much longer is this style here in the states of saggin ass jeans and football/basketall jerseys going to last for? I mean most fashion trends last only a couple of years or so but this shit has been going on for about 15 years.

more importantly, how long is it going to be 'fashionable' to buy mass-produced clothes? as long as the world is the way it is, 'fashion' will revolve around whats profitable, for the muling cabbage masses that is

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:38 pm

stinky wrote:Has anyone ever seen these movies:

Kids

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113540/

Requiem for a Dream

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0180093/

Havoc

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285175/

Bully

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242193/

Obviously, alot of it is sensationalistic drama, but i do have to say that i get chills watching these movies. They mimic alot of US society. Kids takes place in NY and when it first came out, everyone i knew couldn't believe how it was just like how we grew up. Requiem speaks for itself. Havok is new, and it's the closest you'll get to this HipHop discussion we're having, but it's definitely a reflection of this... and Bully.. Wow... alot of it takes place in my old neighborhoods.. These movies are definitely what's going on today, yesterday, and will only continue to get worse tomorrow..

I firmly believe this...

I've seen them all except havoc and I think I liked kids and Bully the best. I'm a pretty big fan of Larry Clark. I think he tells great stories an dmakes something extraordinary out of these kids banal, meaningless lives.

Larry Clark has a serious obsession with children which really bordnerlines on pedophillia. Have you seen or heard of Ken Park? Yikes. Totally banned here in the states. Larry Clark has been doing this stuff sinvce the llate 1970's in regard to his photograohy books. One was called 'Tulsa' and was just nude images of kids holding guns, etc.

I dunno. I guess it's art...