commercialist hip hop in america, truths & myths..

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:39 pm

I wasn't too happy with bully either, but it was spot on when discussing the nature of kids in "mainstream" america today.. I swear, it was like being back in high school, for me, when i watched that movie. Everything's about the car, bitches... i can't tell you how many kids i know that were bullied like that, including me for about a year (6th grade).... and gangs, jesus... imagine having gangs in Boca Raton? Gangs in Beverly Hills? You gotta see Havok to understand that one..

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:41 pm

b0unce wrote:
thelike5 wrote:And one question... how much longer is this style here in the states of saggin ass jeans and football/basketall jerseys going to last for? I mean most fashion trends last only a couple of years or so but this shit has been going on for about 15 years.
more importantly, how long is it going to be 'fashionable' to buy mass-produced clothes? as long as the world is the way it is, 'fashion' will revolve around whats profitable, for the muling cabbage masses that is

True. In downtown Cleveland, you can buy that stuff for next to nothing. I think back to when I was a teenager (10 years ago!) and those clothes were considerably more money. Now you can walk outof a store with a couple pairs of baggy ass jeans and a few jerseys for under a hundered dollars. Sacrifice the jerseys for a few 'TALL' xxl t-shirts and your out of there for about $60.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:42 pm

thelike5 wrote:I've seen them all except havoc and I think I liked kids and Bully the best. I'm a pretty big fan of Larry Clark. I think he tells great stories an dmakes something extraordinary out of these kids banal, meaningless lives.

Larry Clark has a serious obsession with children which really bordnerlines on pedophillia. Have you seen or heard of Ken Park? Yikes. Totally banned here in the states. Larry Clark has been doing this stuff sinvce the llate 1970's in regard to his photograohy books. One was called 'Tulsa' and was just nude images of kids holding guns, etc.

I dunno. I guess it's art...

i'd be more inclined to give it the 'its art' benefit of the doubt if it was somehow an isolated piece, but if thats an 'artists' main topic it becomes less and less art, and more and more obsession imo

3 entries found for phile.

-phile or -phil
suff.
One that loves or has a strong affinity or preference for: audiophile.
Loving; having a strong affinity or preference for: Francophile.

[New Latin -philus, from Greek -philos, beloved, dear, from philos, beloved, loving.]

technically, larry is already there.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:09 am

Stinky is correct. This sort of behavior has become commonplace. Go to any typical nightclub in the USA, and you are going to hear the same rap music. You're going to see the same girls-next-door grinding on the legs of guys who live in the suburbs, but dress like they're from south central.

Example: I remember when a local party promoter decided to have a wet t-shirt contest at an event. He expected maybe 15 girls from the audience would enter. Turns out that damned near every girl in the joint entered.... and the contest got NASTY. Girls got totally naked, bending over, fingering themselves and each other. It was completely out of hand... and probably illegal. Nothing that raunchy would have happened at the local strip clubs, where they aren't even allowed to get all-nude.

It was shocking. SHOCKING. And these were just college girls. And the prize was only $500. I couldn't believe so many girls would go to such lengths for $500. But the truth of the matter was.... they probably would have done it for free. It's like they were just waiting for an excuse to act like sluts. Actually, they were doing it for free.... because only one girl could win, and they all knew that.

But the reason they do it is because this has become the new "cool." Rap music is now pop music. It's mainstream. People mimic what they see on TV, in movies, in music videos, etc.... because these sources influence culture.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:44 am

I mean c'mon the audience mtv and top 40 albums are aimed at are like 13-20 year olds that can't even get into clubs. If the majority of young people in our society participate in wet t-shirt contests and table dancing sans underwear, then the younger generation is totally going to screw our country up.

And 13 year old girls are emulating the behavior they see. Middle-school girls wear t-shirts that say porn star.... or little slut. They wear skin tight shorts with their school names on the ass. Might as well draw a target.

My friend's wife teaches 2nd grade at a school in suburban South Carolina, and she has to discipline boys for calling girls ho's and sluts. These kids don't live in the "hood"... they are just mimicing the culture they see around them. TV, movies, music.... it all affects them.

Look at my post above about the wet t-shirt contest I saw. I wrote that post before reading your mention of it....

This stuff seriously has become commonplace. That doesn't mean EVERYONE does it... no one is saying that. But it has become increasingly common, to the point where it is being accepted as mainstream.

EgAD · Post by **EgAD** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:51 am

the klan still marches in cleveland ohio

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:53 am

subterFUSE wrote: And 13 year old girls are emulating the behavior they see. Middle-school girls wear t-shirts that say porn star.... or little slut. They wear skin tight shorts with their school names on the ass.

My friend's wife teaches 2nd grade at a school in suburban South Carolina, and she has to discipline boys for calling girls ho's and sluts.

Look at my post above about the wet t-shirt contest I saw. I wrote that post before reading your mention of it....

This stuff seriously has become commonplace. That doesn't mean EVERYONE does it... no one is saying that. But it has become increasingly common, to the point where it is being accepted as mainstream.

damn, this is depressing, makes me hope that my wife and I don't have a daughter. you are right, I have seen some young girls wearing the porn star shirts and shit--I'll never forget seeing an ugly fat girl, probably 12 or 13, wearing a "hot bitch" t-shirt on a plane with her upper-middle classe parents and brother--wtf?!? I guess some of it comes down to an overall degradation of morals and parents that just don't give a fuck or cave in to this "mainstream" behavior. I can tell you one thing, if I do have a daughter, she'll be wearing a "porn star" or "hot bitch" shirt over my dead and lifeless body. It is definitely scary to think how much has become more mainstream in the last ten years in terms of language, subject matter, and visuals in music, tv, etc. I remember when George Michael's "I want your sex" was an absolute scandal, as was Tone Loc's rapping on Wild Thing, and you couldn't say ass or bitch on tv. Geez, times have changed.

EgAD · Post by **EgAD** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:56 am

yeah you can say nigga all you want on the radio, but you still can't say honky

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:02 am

It's all coming from the culture, which is changing in our country. And liberals largely control the culture in the USA.... there is no arguing this. They have Hollywood, the music industry, television, the news media, style magazines, even the colleges and universities. We're being bombarded from every direction, and it's effects are showing.... particularly with the youth, who generally are more impressionable.

Now... I am certainly not a bible-thumper. In fact, I am a complete athiest. I fall on the liberal side of about as may issues as I do conservative. But I do see that liberals control much of the culture in this country, and it is changing the landscape.... and I don't think it's for the better.

Values and standards are slipping. Kids fail in school... but rather than improve the schools or help the kids, we lower the standards of testing. On the SAT exam, it is called "Recentering the bellcurve"... but the truth is, they are just lowering the standards because the median has dropped below the mean. Don't help the kids.... just fix the test so it doesn't look like they are falling behind. We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings, would we?

Kids fail in school, but rather than blame the kid we invent medical conditions. Oh... its not his fault... he has Attention Deficit Disorder. People actually believe this crap. It's horseshit. So they let the kid have unlimited time to take tests, and they jack him full of mind-altering drugs. Great solution.

We're becoming a society of excuse-makers. Personal responsibility is going out the door.

I fear that at the rate we are going, we are on the way to looking like France in about 15 years. (14% unemployment, and college kids protesting that you can't fire them from their job, even if they are incompetent)

We've got a lot of problems building... and booty-clubs playing rap music is only the tip of the iceberg.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:23 pm

quandry wrote:It is definitely scary to think how much has become more mainstream in the last ten years in terms of language, subject matter, and visuals in music, tv, etc. I remember when George Michael's "I want your sex" was an absolute scandal, as was Tone Loc's rapping on Wild Thing, and you couldn't say ass or bitch on tv. Geez, times have changed.

well...thats the point. Anal up-tight censorship created the perfect environment for this kind of thing to become risque & mainstream.

funny, cos some other stupid shit i seen on tv the same day was another american thing 'everyone loves raymond'
that show is like a family orientated version of the same shit thats going on in the hip-hop videos. Ray says stupid shit like 'ass' , and the audience laugh and applaud ? wtf? in my country you have to tell a joke/deliver a punchline to cause amusement not just say the word ass, or hint at sex 'which is naughty <giggle giggle>' .....which is absolutely flooding all things american & on tv as far as I can tell. it seems all you have to do is drop a profanity, or hint at sex and thats it - theres your show. I think all this shit comes from the ridiculous strangle-hold the censors had/have on your media....

cos over here, we fuck & swear too....but it hasnt become the forefront of our arts.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:56 pm

subterFUSE wrote:Values and standards are slipping. Kids fail in school... but rather than improve the schools or help the kids, we lower the standards of testing. On the SAT exam, it is called "Recentering the bellcurve"... but the truth is, they are just lowering the standards because the median has dropped below the mean. Don't help the kids.... just fix the test so it doesn't look like they are falling behind. We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings, would we?

think about it some more....who (or what function) would it serve, to ensure that your general masses are composed of 'impotent'* morons ?

*as in, not posing a threat, useless, harmless, ineffective, distracted?

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:26 pm

maybe someone learned a lesson from all the students protesting the vietnam war...

wavejumper · Post by **wavejumper** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:56 pm

hey, thanks for all the 'mediterranean greaseballs' comments. now keep on complaining about the negative effects of stereotypes in US culture, you're definitely the most entitled to make critique.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:27 pm

and you couldn't say ass or bitch on tv. Geez, times have changed.

Did you know that the first prime-time USA television show to use the word bitch uncensored was The Simpsons?

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:33 pm

well...thats the point. Anal up-tight censorship created the perfect environment for this kind of thing to become risque & mainstream.

You make a good point there. Personally, I hate censorship. It gays me out beyond believe.... just like 99.9% of everything that happens in US media.

I hate rap music with a passion.... but I hate it even more when you hear it on the radio and it's bleeped out left & right due to censors.