Why do you hate EDM? "House, Trance, Techno"

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:37 pm

@subterFUSE

Well, quandry already has me covered.

Indeed, when i say four on the floor or 4x4 i'm talking about the fact that "EDM" has a kick on every quarter note, not the fact that it is in 4/4 time.

And i have never heard an "edm" track that does not feature a kick on every quarter note for most of the track (yes, obviously i've heard tracks with little breaks or drops that don't have the 4x4 kick).

I'm afraid it is one of the defining elements of the genre and without it a track is simply not "EDM" anymore.

I like the fact that you are open minded enough to think that a dance floor track can work without a 4 on the floor kick, and i agree with you whole heartedly. But in your statement that house is still house even if you put a breaks kick underneath it, i'm afraid most of the audience would disagree.

.lm.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:38 pm

From a disc Jockey's perspective the kick needs to stand out other wise it's hard to mix

and when you're in the club you want a banging beat down kick - stompy style

weak kicks are weak - it's gotta kick 4 or the floor break beat drum and bass hip-hop no one likes a weak kick with no juice underneath

easy

I'll tell you what's weak.. not being able to mix because the kick doesn't stand out. That says alot.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:41 pm

But in your statement that house is still house even if you put a breaks kick underneath it, i'm afraid most of the audience would disagree.

Well.... they can be wrong. That's fine by me.

Tranquil010 · Post by **Tranquil010** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:43 pm

Since we're on Ableton forums.. we must all be producers or performers of some kind.
I dont like country music but I can appreciate the production and say... they panned that guitar nicly..
I would assume people on these boards would do the same.. Appreciate music and how it was made.
And hate is a very strong word. Like it has been discussed - I dont like house - would be better

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:45 pm

ok, but unfortunately the audience is who defines what this stuff is, not us.

If it was up to me, we wouldn't have to hear the four on the floor kick all night on most dancefloors.

alas and alac..... (alac? is that the word in that phrase? no, but something like that, right?)

.lm.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:50 pm

kennerb wrote: Kicks and bass are what put my body into action. The rest of the sound is for my head and maybe sometimes my hands. Beats for the spine melody for the rest of me.

BTW what is it with the lack of beat and bass in commercial hip hop lately? It's all click. clack, tick, tack now.

Tribe you gotta come back and teach these young uns about the low end theory all over again!

yeah, what is the deal with absolutely zero bassline to lots of hiphop on the tv and radio these days--wtf? I guess I'm biased being a bass player, but no bassline=it's not music to me. It's not like these are dense compositions chock full of complex instrumentation--its usually a beat and two repetative synth parts, maybe sound fake synth guitar or strings. At least stop being so effin lazy and put some bass in there to give the song some sense of tonic, melody, chords. Raw sounds are cool, but I swear these dudes must whip out the instrumentals on these tracks in like an hour they are so damn simple.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:51 pm

But in your statement that house is still house even if you put a breaks kick underneath it, i'm afraid most of the audience would disagree.

Way too many generalizations flying around here... I've heard plenty of house, trance, pystrance, etc... with breakbeats in it. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it's not there, and it can't be characterized by some for that subgenre...

ok, but unfortunately the audience is who defines what this stuff is, not us.

You guys are just as bad at defining "stuff".. There are tons of artists out there that are still pushing the limit, even if it's not in the "mainstream" of the "underground"... just like in hiphop, just like in any other genre. There will always be people pushing the limit. This thread is just as bad as the hiphop thread, and it seems like the same close-minded people are going back and forth and just dissing/pissing on the other preferred style. St00pid way to be...

dm_hawk · Post by **dm_hawk** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:01 pm

[quote="djadonis206"]statesments like this

"...i say this with one exception in mind, though - trance - because everybody knows TRANCE SUX most EDM sux, too, when you really think about it."

"
quote]

i was being facetious - trusting that the devil head

and lame alternate spelling of "sucks" would indicate as much. actually it was sasha and digweed's northern exposure series that rekindled my interest in electronic music. i don't happen to be into trance or prog-anything at the moment, but it was my gateway into the genres that i now love dearly.

djadonis206 -
to address your original question as to why many on this forum seem to hate trance, here are a few suggestions.

-it's been around for many years with little musical evolution within the genre
-in the past few years, its popularity has exploded, reaching well into the same mainstream audience that poo-pooed it when it was part of the "underground."
-its harmonic and melodic content often leans in the direction of "emotional" or "uplifting"

music with any combination of these three elements is sure to be hated and ridiculed by certain music enthusiasts, especially those who try keep on top of the latest developments

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:07 pm

stinky wrote:
But in your statement that house is still house even if you put a breaks kick underneath it, i'm afraid most of the audience would disagree.
Way too many generalizations flying around here... I've heard plenty of house, trance, pystrance, etc... with breakbeats in it. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it's not there, and it can't be characterized by some for that subgenre...

I am sorry, but i don't think that it is unreasonable for me to claim that 99.9% of house, trance, psytrance, whatever subgenre of "EDM" you want to name is based in a four on the floor kick. If it has a break kick pattern, it's only for about 4 - 8 bars before the four on the floor kick comes in.

It's completly insane to say otherwise.

also, please notice that i'm not trying to shit on this genre, if you actually read my posts in this thread i'm actually pretty sympathetic to it.

.lm.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:08 pm

actually it was sasha and digweed's northern exposure series that rekindled my interest in electronic music. i don't happen to be into trance or prog-anything at the moment, but it was my gateway into the genres that i now love dearly

I was actually going to bring up Sasha & Digweed to make an interesting point. Alot of Northern Exposure is breakbeat. Sasha is the only one of the top 10 dj's to consistently (if not religiously) play breakbeat tracks. If you see Sasha live, a majority of his show will, in fact, be breakbeat. I've seen him soooo many times, and it's almost always breakbeat heavy (especially for house and trancers).

My point being is that pidgeonholing this or that is not the thing to do, if you don't even listen to the music.

dm_hawk · Post by **dm_hawk** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:09 pm

for the record, i personally don't hate trance or think it's "worse" than any other style of music. it is what it is. if i don't enjoy listening to a particular type of music, i don't listen to it.

except for musical theater - i hate that shit to the root of my eternal soul.

dm_hawk · Post by **dm_hawk** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:18 pm

stinky wrote:

My point being is that pidgeonholing this or that is not the thing to do, if you don't even listen to the music.

if your comment is directed towards me, i want no part of a terminology debate - not my line of interest.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:19 pm

if your comment is directed towards me, i want no part of a terminology debate - not my line of interest.

no, it wasn't directed at anyone in general... just quoted you because of the Sasha & Digweed line

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:26 pm

I was actually going to bring up Sasha & Digweed to make an interesting point. Alot of Northern Exposure is breakbeat. Sasha is the only one of the top 10 dj's to consistently (if not religiously) play breakbeat tracks. If you see Sasha live, a majority of his show will, in fact, be breakbeat. I've seen him soooo many times, and it's almost always breakbeat heavy (especially for house and trancers).

Exactly. But if you asked him, like me, what style of music he plays... he would say progressive. Progressive is such a broad range of music. It is some house, it is some trance, it has some breaks, even deep and ambient stuff.

Northern Exposure is obviously a different story, altogether. It was never meant to be a "dance" CD. It was, in fact... the first of its kind. A DJ mixed compilation designed NOT to be like a clubnight set. When it was released, people shat all over it. No one was happy. Everyone was expecting something similar to the Renaissance collection. Most were disappointed.

I remember when I first heard Northern Exposure. I was in college, and I worked at a restaurant. There was this guy I worked with, who always talked about the parties he would go to.... and especially this DJ named Sasha. He said that this DJ was just head and shoulders above the rest.

So.... my interest peaked, I set off to the music store.... in search of a Sasha CD. Well... I had a hard time. I didn't see anything with Sasha on it. But I did see this CD by Sasha & John Digweed. I didn't know about this John Digweed character.... but I took a chance and bought the CD. It was Northern Exposure.

When i played the CD, I thought instantly that I must have had to wrong artists. Oh well, I said to myself. But... what the hell.... let's listen to it now that I spent the money on it. The intro reminded me a lot of this Future Sound of London CD I had.

So.... I listened to the CD.... and then listened again, and again.... and I slowly began to see the genius behind it. Every time I listened, it got better and better.

Eventually I discovered that it was indeed the correct Sasha that I had found.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:26 pm

stinky wrote: I was actually going to bring up Sasha & Digweed to make an interesting point. Alot of Northern Exposure is breakbeat. Sasha is the only one of the top 10 dj's to consistently (if not religiously) play breakbeat tracks. If you see Sasha live, a majority of his show will, in fact, be breakbeat. I've seen him soooo many times, and it's almost always breakbeat heavy (especially for house and trancers).

ok, but can't a DJ known for playing a certain genre play something outside of that genre. Just because sasha or digweed plays a breakbeat track doesn't magically change the fact that the track is a breakbeat track.

I can't believe that anyone would try to argue that house/techno/trance would still be house/techno/trance without the four on the floor kick. Imagine going into a club saying that you are going to play a house set and then never dropping a four on the floor kick. What do you think people would say?

.lm.