Why do you hate EDM? "House, Trance, Techno"

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:50 pm

about Natan Fake:

I havent heard and known it, but maybe heard someone play without knowing.

What would be a track that does not have a 4x4 kick by him that i should buy?

.lm.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:52 pm

you obviously missed that post, so go back and read it.. the album I mentioned there is amazing...

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:56 pm

I have a question.. what about a track that has a kick, snare, kick, snare... is that still considered 4x4? But, you're on about the kick, right? But if the kick is not hitting on 2 & 4, then i guess it's not house? I mean, if we're fucking splitting hairs here.. jesus christ, guys..

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:56 pm

no i saw it.

superpositions is the name of a track?

I can't imagine the whole album is devoid of 4x4 kicks.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:57 pm

stinky wrote:I have a question.. what about a track that has a kick, snare, kick, snare... is that still considered 4x4? But, you're on about the kick, right? But if the kick is not hitting on 2 & 4, then i guess it's not house? I mean, if we're fucking splitting hairs here.. jesus christ, guys..

well, that hardly ever happens except in breakdowns or build ups. The snare is usually on top of a kick in house/techno/trance etc....

.lm.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:59 pm

well, that hardly ever happens except in breakdowns or build ups. The snare is usually on top of a kick in house/techno/trance etc....

.lm.

what!!!!!!! are you serious?

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:06 pm

stinky wrote:
well, that hardly ever happens except in breakdowns or build ups. The snare is usually on top of a kick in house/techno/trance etc....

.lm.
what!!!!!!! are you serious?

uhhh, yes, i am.

*most* of the time there is still a kick on the 3 and 4 under the snare.

If we're talking about house/techno/trance etc.

.lm.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:08 pm

uhhh, yes, i am.

*most* of the time there is still a kick on the 3 and 4 under the snare.

If we're talking about house/techno/trance etc.

.lm.

yes, most of the time, but i was splitting hairs, just like you. And, it's not always true that the kick is underneath, even throughout the track. I've heard it in 16 Bit Lolitas & Aidan Lavelle, off the top of my head.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:15 pm

well, i hardly ever do this, but i felt like i had to.

I just downloaded that nathan fake superpositions track and it' an interesting track so far....

...But, i wouldn't call that techno/trance/house or anything else "edm"

Agtain, just because someone works mostly in one genre doesn't make everything they do fit into that genre.

Remember way back in the good old mid nineties when orbital put out that record snivilization? Cool record at the time, but a lot of the tracks (maybe all, i can't remember) we're decidedly *not* techno. And just because orbital made them, didn't make them techno. Get me? I'm all for people branching out and doing different stuff. In fact, that's what i'd like to see a whole lot more of. But I don't see how a track with a *rock* drum pattern, like that nathan fake track, could be considered "edm" at least by the current definitions of the genre. Remember, "EDM" doesn't really mean "electronic dance music" or dance hall reggae would have to be considered "EDM" by the virtue that it is electronic dance music.

And frankly, i think it's going to be a tough sell to get a bunch of people who are used to dancing to four on the floor kicks dance to stuff that is not four on the floor. Maybe one song in a set if your lucky, and i you can pretty much expect the energy to drop on the floor at least a bit during that song.

Is this how it should be? No.
Is this how it is? Yep.

.lm.

djsentinel · Post by **djsentinel** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:38 am

Well this topic did not turn out the way I would have liked it to turn out... but here is my 2 cents.

I never said that we should throw out the 4x4 or anything. I just think that if you think thats what trance music should be about, then thats just wrong. Sure you put it there so its "dancable" and holds it together, but why glorify/embelish the thump thump? If thats all people want I'll just bring a fckin 909 to the next gig and just let my 64 bar pattern run. People who listen to trance music... sure... they want that thump thump, and so do I. But you can't make the entire music around thump thump, because thats not the most interesting part. It should be a backdrop... a glaze forsay.

I will always make trance, I will always spin trance, and I will always love trance.

Peace and fcking good day

,
DJsentinel

PS... I was expecting this thread to be "Well I don't like rolling basslines too much, you?" or "Well maybe we could make more subdued kicks to make the music less intrusive."

Guess not

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:26 am

Oh yeah, well fuck you and fuck trance too.

BTW, the new Oakenfold record is rather fun.

djsentinel · Post by **djsentinel** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:55 pm

It's okay imo...

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:37 pm

leisuremuffin wrote: And frankly, i think it's going to be a tough sell to get a bunch of people who are used to dancing to four on the floor kicks dance to stuff that is not four on the floor. Maybe one song in a set if your lucky, and i you can pretty much expect the energy to drop on the floor at least a bit during that song.

Good trance dj's mix in breaks all the time, without dropping the energy. Mixing in some breaks is a good way to change up the energy a bit, which usually results in more people dancing, and even more when it does go back to four-on-the-floor - if it's done right of course. I'm listening to DJ Brian right now mix trance>breaks>trance. Listened to a Timo Maas mix yesterday going breaks>trance>breaks>trance all over the place.....all still trancey sounds of course.

I'm a diehard four-on-the-floor lover, and I get tired if there is no variation throughout the night. But I can't take even a set of just breaks...I gotta have that trancebeat!!

Seems like the DJ competition is so fierce in some places DJ's are afraid to try anything very different from the norm for fear of losing position. I was thinking yesterday that's why guys like Sasha and PVD aren't out there doing truly revolutionary stuff with Live...they are nudging the envelope just a tiny bit at a time so as not to disturb the fickle masses (in their mind at least).

I played a festival last weekend and mixed out of an excellent Ticon track into a 3 minute A/V movie clip from Fear&Loathing, and then into a downtempo White Rabbit remix, and into a Grateful Dead breaks remix, back into dark techy psytrance.....talk about scary! I was sweating it because it was such a radical departure from anything anyone else had done at the festival - and some people loved it, some people left. So I figure that's the kind of thing that scares off most trance DJ's from "breaking the trance" so to speak, which often means preserving the status quo, IMO.

Sorry to keep talking about trance...I know EDM is more than trance...

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:41 pm

djsentinel wrote:Well this topic did not turn out the way I would have liked it to turn out... but here is my 2 cents.

PS... I was expecting this thread to be "Well I don't like rolling basslines too much, you?" or "Well maybe we could make more subdued kicks to make the music less intrusive."

Guess not

Hey I was playing nice. This is what I wrote.

"If I were to pick at trance at all I would say my biggest gripe is that it takes the build ups and breakdowns to a level of bathos. Sometimes to such a degree it becomes anticlimactic. I know that is the intent but I get a bit jaded. The production quality to most of it is amazing though."

BTW it's enevitable that a post will turn into a pissing match if it goes beyond 2 pages. We all seem to fall into Forum stereotypes like what this guy writes about.
http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/index.htm

Gyu · Post by **Gyu** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:12 pm

Hello everyone. I'm Guy. I've enjoyed reading this thread, theres been alot of wise opinions shared. I personally am not very familiar with the terms EDM and IDM. I thought IDM stood for Intelligent Dance Music. From reading this I now think its a collective term for House, Trance and Techno. Is this right?
On the argument about breaks in house ect I think that yes; House, techno, trance are almost 100% straight 4/4 kick but also they often have breaks layered over them. So you're both right.
I'm into breaks mainly but definitely agree with people saying that most rubbish music is generic and formulaic. I for one want to go to a rave and see a wide variety of good music, not one microgenre.
Peace