Rules for scene launching

[ironchef]

I'm a newbie. I've gone thru all the tutorials and I've got a good idea on how things work. Basically I'm want to use Live to prototype interactive music for video games. One thing I'm not clear is how and where do I set the rules for scene triggers. When I trigger a scene I'd like to specify when to actual change to it, i.e. next bar or next beat etc., I know about the global quantization but I want to customize it for each scene.

Also is possible to crossfade individual clips when they go from one scene to the other.

How about overlaping 2 scenes? Here is an example: scene one is playing, I launch scene 2 which I want it to switch 2 bars after I cued it and I also want to trigger a pickup cymbal roll before it starts, is this possible?

thanks,

ic

[tomperson]

You can set up rules for clip launching, not scenes as far as I know.

[hambone1]

I use rules for launching lighting and video clips and scenes.

You'll need to use a virtual MIDI interface, such as the IAC driver in OSX, or the PC equivalent.

Basically, by launching a clip containing a chord by whatever rule you wish, the virtual MIDI interface can launch all clips and/or scenes (and effects, or anything else you can MIDI map) mapped to the notes in that chord.

It's much more powerful than launching individual scenes, as you can pick and choose which clips and/or scenes you wish to launch, and use it to control effects, too. You can MIDI map clips with embedded CC curves to control crossfades, etc.

[Michael Hatsis]

I'm a newbie. I've gone thru all the tutorials and I've got a good idea on how things work. Basically I'm want to use Live to prototype interactive music for video games.

One thing I'm not clear is how and where do I set the rules for scene triggers. When I trigger a scene I'd like to specify when to actual change to it, i.e. next bar or next beat etc., I know about the global quantization but I want to customize it for each scene.

hambone1's method is one way to do it, a way to do it without a virtual MIDI Interface- MIDI Yoke ( WIN)or IAC driver ( OSX ) is:

If every clip in a scene has the same launch properties, that would be almost the same as a scene having a Single launch property ( trigger ),- Also
In Live 5 you can edit multiple Clip's launch properties at once. That will save you some time. look at the lip view and find Launch properties and follow actions. Follow actions will let you set up clips to perform in a traditional (linear ) arrrangement fashion from the session page.

Also is possible to crossfade individual clips when they go from one scene to the other.

-Dont know of a way to do this without extra tracks involved,

How about overlaping 2 scenes? Here is an example: scene one is playing, I launch scene 2 which I want it to switch 2 bars after I cued it and I also want to trigger a pickup cymbal roll before it starts, is this possible?

Also, for overlapping two scenes look into legato mode and follow actions in Clip properties, that should get you rolling-


Michael

[longjohns]

Also is possible to crossfade individual clips when they go from one scene to the other.

this could be a useful additon to follow actions - have some option to not stop the currently playing clip -

so the clip would automatically trigger the follow action at the specified interval, but continue doing it's thing. then you could create a crossfade effect with the two clips' envelopes.

even without doing anything to the envelopes, it could be useful. i can imagine lots of scenarios where it would be nice to not cut off the first clip abruptly

[MrYellow]

Checkout follow actions for some of the stuff u need.

Also experiment with the clip launch quantise settings and global quantise.

For example a scene might contain 2 clips,

A quantised high-hats to 1 bar
B quantised kick-drum to 4 bars.

Master transport is moving along, halfway thru bar 2 I hit the scene, the
high hats start playing the next bar, the kick the bar after...

-Ben

[ironchef]

Thank you all for your replies.

I've been experimenting with the global quantize as well as launch quantize but I'm finding it rather inconsistent and it's not always triggering the way it should. I'm running 5.2 maybe there is something wrong with my install.

I haven't figured out how to do overlap 2 scenes, to allow for an ending with a pickup. I think it'd be very cool to have some sort of envelopes clips that you could put in a track. So the scene changes but you keep the clip playing (no stop button) then you could have a volume envelop kind of thing to create a fade. For that matter you could have any kind of envelop and fx tweak.

[jethrosipho]

You should check out unlinked envelopes (unlinked volume envelopes specifically are useful for pickups, fade outs) and also mix this with removing stop buttons (Command or Apple - e) -- so clips don't stop.
J

[ironchef]

You should check out unlinked envelopes (unlinked volume envelopes specifically are useful for pickups, fade outs) and also mix this with removing stop buttons (Command or Apple - e) -- so clips don't stop.
J

That sounded promising, it's close but still not quite what I want it to do. That unlinked volume envelop is still attached to a duplicate of the clip in the new scene and it then gets restarted instead of just fading it out.

[longjohns]

Thank you all for your replies.

I've been experimenting with the global quantize as well as launch quantize but I'm finding it rather inconsistent and it's not always triggering the way it should. I'm running 5.2 maybe there is something wrong with my install.

I haven't figured out how to do overlap 2 scenes, to allow for an ending with a pickup. I think it'd be very cool to have some sort of envelopes clips that you could put in a track. So the scene changes but you keep the clip playing (no stop button) then you could have a volume envelop kind of thing to create a fade. For that matter you could have any kind of envelop and fx tweak.

i have only noticed erratic behavior with follow actions, but there may be some funny business going on with other aspects of clip launching.

if you are noticing problems with how a clip is launching, try turning on warp for the clip, if it's not already. to me it seems like follow actions do not work properly unless warp is on. use repitch at orig tempo if you have to...

[Silverfish]

I'm currently using Live to model what I'd like to do with game I'm developing. Ironchef, what kinds of things would you like your game audio to do? I've found that Live works pretty well for my needs. I'm still learning about launching the clips, debating whether or not it's necessary to make my programmers program six tracks and then program who knows how many audio clips. It's a work in progress, and I'm actually working out a method of "notating" in-game audio clips in Micro$oft excel. This way I can actually talk to non-music people about the music (I'm the only sound guy). [/i]

[ironchef]

The inconsistency I was witnessing with the scene launch was due to the fact that I was expecting Live to "play in four bars", if quantization was set to 4 bar but it is not like that. The global quantize tells clips to be launched against the global bars count. It is absolute. Means that if it is set to "4 bars", and you launch a clip on bar 3 of the global bars count, the clip will play only one bar after you launched it. I was expecting it to play 4 bars from my launch. However I do wish there was an option to change this overall behaviour. Can't see that being a big deal to add and would be useful for a lot of people.

Silverfish, I'd like to find out more about how you use Live for games. For me I want to be able to simulate the gameplay by launching scenes. Thus my need to have crossfade of scenes and control over when and how soon a change of scene will occur once the trigger is done. Games like movies are not bound to 4/4 and 4 bars like DJ/ Dance music is. For instance in a combat/fight scene I want to be able to switch the U_Die scene (often with a timpani roll and cymbal swell pickup) on the 1/4. Bars odd meters like 5/4,6/4,7/4 etc. are common in game and movie scores. I'd want to overlap the 2 scenes for the duration of the pickup to make for a smooth transition emulating a canned ending. Combat music plays then you hear a cymbal swell for 2 beats (U_DIe scene overlap), combat music fades stops on the down beat of the U_Die scene.

Whereas other transitions I want them to change on the 1 bar or 2 bar to make it smoother. Sometimes crossfading, like an ambient exploring tracks then you enter the castle music crossfade slowly over 2 maybe 4 bars depending on tempo.

Anyway Silverfish maybe we should discuss this offline. PM me please.

[ironchef]

[/quote]
Also, for overlapping two scenes look into legato mode and follow actions in Clip properties, that should get you rolling-

Michael[/quote]

I see what you are talking about. Legato basically resume playing the next clip at the same position it was in the previous clip, right? Combined with an unlinked volume fade should do the trick but can't get it to work. I was using the same clip, I even tried different clips no go either. Thoughts?

[longjohns]

unlinking the envelopes is only necessary if this is for a looping sample

as soon as playback begins on the second clip (in the scene beneath) - then it's envelope will be controlling the audio -

so---- try making one envelope for each clip - the first starts at 100% volume and ends somewhere in the middle,

and the second begins at the exact volume the other clip was at the point of transition, and continues fading to 0%

both clips in legato mode

i just did this as a test so i know it works

[ironchef]

unlinking the envelopes is only necessary if this is for a looping sample

as soon as playback begins on the second clip (in the scene beneath) - then it's envelope will be controlling the audio -

so---- try making one envelope for each clip - the first starts at 100% volume and ends somewhere in the middle,

and the second begins at the exact volume the other clip was at the point of transition, and continues fading to 0%

both clips in legato mode

i just did this as a test so i know it works

Thanks for your reply longjohns but either I don't understand what you're saying or vice-versa.

When I play the same clip back to back in 2 adjacent scenes in legato mode it is seemless. As expected. The second clip plays from where the previous one left. Now I wan't to fade out that clip when I swtich to that second scene and I don't know where the transition point will occur since it is interactive. It can happen on any beat. I thought that unlinking that volume envelop so it's associated with the begin of the loop but rather the beginning of play , would allow me to fade out for 2 beats from wherever it will be playing in the loop. It's not working, I'm using v 5.2 btw.