Proper GROOVE features and intelligent quantising.

[Obineg]

I'd like the whole global clock to be user groove definable , that way beatrepeat delays and such effects would still be usuable with groove quantized tracks . . .

[M. Bréqs]

I'd like the whole global clock to be user groove definable , that way beatrepeat delays and such effects would still be usuable with groove quantized tracks . . .

YES!

[kooki415]

As long as your concept is completely user-proof, and I can take groove from sample A and apply it to sample B (and C and D) ON THE FLY without any preparation beforehand, I would agree with you.

What I want is to have say 5 channels with 5 different clips playing (audio and midi). I want to be able to hit a single button on any track and immediately designate the current playing clip in that channel as the MASTER groove clip. All the markers (if it's audio) or the actual midi events could be used to calculate a groove that would be forced on to all other playing clips in other channels.

yea. easy enough. it would be up to ableton to choose the best UI for the system, but the programming of it really isnt any more complicated than what they already have done.

[joeysilvero]

definatly a great idea for new features, the swing settings are ok, but be nice to import some mpc groove templates

create your own to be used on other tracks etc

joey

[Abzurd]

This is so funny. I just started a new string requesting the same feature because I didn't see this string.

I guess great mind think alike.

ABZurd

[M. Bréqs]

OK, this is how I see it.

There should be a feature where you can push a "groove master" button on one of your channels, and the currently playing clip's groove is applied to each of the other three. This button could be similar in footprint to the mute or solo buttons... Or it could be at the top of the channels, where the names are. You'll also need a "groove slave" button on each channel.

So, let's say that we have a swingin set of drums in audio mode. If I warp marker them so they're totally straight, no swing and in perfect quantization, shouldn't Live be able to interpret, by means of its timestretching, where the original transients were?

Here's an unwarped clip full of funk:

Note the late snare drum at 1.2 and the late hi-hats before 1.4.

Here's one that's had the funk quantized right out of it:

You notice how the time ruler at the BOTTOM of the clip hasn't changed? Live still knows the absolute values of the orignal clip despite warp markers!


So let's say you play this quantized clip in the currently selected "master groove" track. Because you did your warping dillligently, Live already has all the information it needs to know how to "unwarp" this clip and reverse engineer the groove.

Then, with the "master groove" button on in that track (like a solo button, or "radio style" button where only one can be on at a time) it would apply it's groove to all other tracks selected with the "groove slave" button. Your MIDI could be 100% quantized, but it would fall into place with the original warped track.

If you hit the "groove master" button on another, it should immediately apply its groove to all channels with the "groove slave" button turned on (like a cue button, more than one channel should be able to be designated groove slaves).

Naturally, all the clips in your slave tracks would have to be quantized 100%, or they would end up outta whack. No prob, cause if you want that groove back, you just designate those clips as the master groove channel! Imagine the groove possibilities of this! (by the way, this would incorporate seamlessly with .rx2 files, but that's another story).

For using a midi clip as "groove master", it would have to be UNQUANTIZED. If you quantized it, you would lose all your groove data. However, using it as the master is an even simpler proposition, since there's no reverse engineering of the warp markers to do!!!

When you switch a midi clip to a "groove slave" state, a temporary and user-invisible quantize should be applied so everything is straight. The user shouldn't even see this process. However, there should be a menu in the preferences for setting the resolution of this, be it 8th, 16th, 32nd or 64th notes (or even triplets or whatever). Then, the groove template from the "groove master" channel (be it midi or warped audio) is applied to the straight track, re-funkifying it. This invisible pre-quantizing would ensure you didn't screw up your groove by applying timing changes to stuff that's already got wonky timing.

What it might look like is this:
Imagine you have four clips, in four channels. One and Two are audio, three and four are midi.



In this case, Track 1 is the master (purple radio button), track 2 and 3 are the slaves (green toggle buttons), and track 4 doesn't have a groove applied. Also, I think that since the "S" character is already used for solo, some other letter or graphic would have to be used for the groove slaves...

Anyways, Abes - c'mon, this'll work! You already have the data, technology and know-how to do this!

Quoted as a bump.

[KU]

I can't say I that I am desperate for groove quantize, but it is certainly at the very top of my Feature Request List...

I would love to have a pull down menu in the clip section from which I could apply a long list of preset and userdefinable grooves.
To be able to put a clip into Groove Define mode, so that editing the warp markers extracted the Warp/Groove information into a Groove Preset/Template which I could apply to other clips.

Of course it would be applied to other clips via the Master Swing fuction as well. It would be as simple as the current system of applying Swing to clips, except that you could select from the Groove Templates list in the Master Section.

[M. Bréqs]

OK, this is how I see it.

There should be a feature where you can push a "groove master" button on one of your channels, and the currently playing clip's groove is applied to each of the other three. This button could be similar in footprint to the mute or solo buttons... Or it could be at the top of the channels, where the names are. You'll also need a "groove slave" button on each channel.

So, let's say that we have a swingin set of drums in audio mode. If I warp marker them so they're totally straight, no swing and in perfect quantization, shouldn't Live be able to interpret, by means of its timestretching, where the original transients were?

Here's an unwarped clip full of funk:

Note the late snare drum at 1.2 and the late hi-hats before 1.4.

Here's one that's had the funk quantized right out of it:

You notice how the time ruler at the BOTTOM of the clip hasn't changed? Live still knows the absolute values of the orignal clip despite warp markers!


So let's say you play this quantized clip in the currently selected "master groove" track. Because you did your warping dillligently, Live already has all the information it needs to know how to "unwarp" this clip and reverse engineer the groove.

Then, with the "master groove" button on in that track (like a solo button, or "radio style" button where only one can be on at a time) it would apply it's groove to all other tracks selected with the "groove slave" button. Your MIDI could be 100% quantized, but it would fall into place with the original warped track.

If you hit the "groove master" button on another, it should immediately apply its groove to all channels with the "groove slave" button turned on (like a cue button, more than one channel should be able to be designated groove slaves).

Naturally, all the clips in your slave tracks would have to be quantized 100%, or they would end up outta whack. No prob, cause if you want that groove back, you just designate those clips as the master groove channel! Imagine the groove possibilities of this! (by the way, this would incorporate seamlessly with .rx2 files, but that's another story).

For using a midi clip as "groove master", it would have to be UNQUANTIZED. If you quantized it, you would lose all your groove data. However, using it as the master is an even simpler proposition, since there's no reverse engineering of the warp markers to do!!!

When you switch a midi clip to a "groove slave" state, a temporary and user-invisible quantize should be applied so everything is straight. The user shouldn't even see this process. However, there should be a menu in the preferences for setting the resolution of this, be it 8th, 16th, 32nd or 64th notes (or even triplets or whatever). Then, the groove template from the "groove master" channel (be it midi or warped audio) is applied to the straight track, re-funkifying it. This invisible pre-quantizing would ensure you didn't screw up your groove by applying timing changes to stuff that's already got wonky timing.

What it might look like is this:
Imagine you have four clips, in four channels. One and Two are audio, three and four are midi.



In this case, Track 1 is the master (purple radio button), track 2 and 3 are the slaves (green toggle buttons), and track 4 doesn't have a groove applied. Also, I think that since the "S" character is already used for solo, some other letter or graphic would have to be used for the groove slaves...

Anyways, Abes - c'mon, this'll work! You already have the data, technology and know-how to do this!

Quoted as a bump.

OK, it's been a while...

IS this an approximation of the "Master Clip" timing that I've read about on the Live 6 Alpha testing threads?!?!?!

I mean, having it actually manipulate the global tempo is pure genius! Many kudos to the Abes on this one, they came up with a solution better than anything I could have hoped for!!!

A-#1 Guys!

[forge]

IS this an approximation of the "Master Clip" timing that I've read about on the Live 6 Alpha testing threads?!?!?!

well yes, except the master/slave button is underneat the warp button in clip properties

[forge]

BUT - you should note that this is only in arrange at this stage

so you cant trigger a clip in session and do it

but really, if you're in a set somewhere you can easily paste the next clip into arrange and line it up without fuss - you can after all see where you are in the set by the locater and timeline etc....still usable on the fly

[M. Bréqs]

BUT - you should note that this is only in arrange at this stage

so you cant trigger a clip in session and do it

but really, if you're in a set somewhere you can easily paste the next clip into arrange and line it up without fuss - you can after all see where you are in the set by the locater and timeline etc....still usable on the fly

Man, I ain't complaining about that! It's still friggin brilliant!

[forge]

BUT - you should note that this is only in arrange at this stage

so you cant trigger a clip in session and do it

but really, if you're in a set somewhere you can easily paste the next clip into arrange and line it up without fuss - you can after all see where you are in the set by the locater and timeline etc....still usable on the fly

Man, I ain't complaining about that! It's still friggin brilliant!

yeah, it's really just for people like Hambone who are DJing alot of non electronic stuff - it would make their lives infinitely easier if you could do it in session, but for everyone else its brilliant!

[M. Bréqs]

yeah, it's really just for people like Hambone who are DJing alot of non electronic stuff - it would make their lives infinitely easier if you could do it in session, but for everyone else its brilliant!

Naturally, I would appreciate it if we could use it in session view - I use a fair number of organic grooves for live composition. I would LOVE to quantize my produced midi drums to non-linear / organic grooves right in session. I hardly ever work in Arrange, and I write original material on the fly.

I intend to throw a series of different samples on a muted audio track in the arrange view, and set the loop markers on the arrange view to change my groove. That should work...

[Martyn]

Even if it just happens in the arrange view I still think its a major step in the right direction, it's still not the same as good old midi groove templates though.

Still, I can't wait to try it.

[anti-banausic]

If it was just in arrange, couldn't you slave the midi drums, then record the audio output, and voila, you can drag the new grooved clip into session?

Slight pain, but definitely a workable workaround.