Hey folks - I've been a happy Live user for the past year and rave about it whenever I get the chance. Since most of you are already Live converts, I thought I'd go slightly off topic and give the guitar players out there a sneak peek at a new pedal coming out in the New Year called the "Envelope Phaser". It's a "boutique" pedal, totally analog circuits with a great, fat sound that's a perfect complement to your Live setup. Check it out at:
http://www.pigtronix.com
Cheers - V
Heads up to guitar players
Re: Heads up to guitar players
[quote="Verroom"]http://www.pigtronix.com[/quote]
I think you can do this and much more already with monitoring through live and using all theese fine plugins. No need for more step dancing ...
Sincerely
Karl
I think you can do this and much more already with monitoring through live and using all theese fine plugins. No need for more step dancing ...
Sincerely
Karl
-
Verroom
Hey Karl,
No argument, but there are those "purists" out there that prefer analog and pedals and such stuff to digital and plugins. It's not for everyone, but for those that prefer to do it the "old way", this thing really rocks.
As an example, a couple of weeks ago one of the bands currently on a heavy MTV rotation tried out the prototype at a live gig and liked it so much they ordered 3! Their tech was so impressed, he want's to design their entire pedal-board around it!
No argument, but there are those "purists" out there that prefer analog and pedals and such stuff to digital and plugins. It's not for everyone, but for those that prefer to do it the "old way", this thing really rocks.
As an example, a couple of weeks ago one of the bands currently on a heavy MTV rotation tried out the prototype at a live gig and liked it so much they ordered 3! Their tech was so impressed, he want's to design their entire pedal-board around it!
[quote="Verroom"]Their tech was so impressed, he want's to design their entire pedal-board around it![/quote]
Let me guess - They don't know about Live
I'm quite satisfied with a Boss GT-6, a GR-33, a H&K Tube-Factor and a Behringer FCB 1010 on the floor. A lot of pedal stuff and I wish I could reduce this in a way. I try to do as much I can through Live and I wish guit to midi was so fast as triggering the GR-33 synth and software plugins would have the GT-6 features and I could use the DSP on my soundcard. Its still needfull to have 'analog' stuff and spend a lot of money
Its a pitty though because the guys building them amazing digital pedals for guitar are still kind of thinking analog. E.g. no sync possibilities for the guitar synthesizer and none for the GT-6 delay. So I have to use Live's plugins for this.
Anyway you're right, we all have to make decisions ...
Sincerely
Karl
Let me guess - They don't know about Live
I'm quite satisfied with a Boss GT-6, a GR-33, a H&K Tube-Factor and a Behringer FCB 1010 on the floor. A lot of pedal stuff and I wish I could reduce this in a way. I try to do as much I can through Live and I wish guit to midi was so fast as triggering the GR-33 synth and software plugins would have the GT-6 features and I could use the DSP on my soundcard. Its still needfull to have 'analog' stuff and spend a lot of money
Its a pitty though because the guys building them amazing digital pedals for guitar are still kind of thinking analog. E.g. no sync possibilities for the guitar synthesizer and none for the GT-6 delay. So I have to use Live's plugins for this.
Anyway you're right, we all have to make decisions ...
Sincerely
Karl
-
Guest
this seems like a very cool pedal indeed. i theres is a problem how software users in general it seems talk about how their program can do everything and blah blah blah. im fucking sick of it actually. live is a great program and all but its not the only thing. in fact i for one find myself going back to alot of analog gear. i got a les paul going thru a gibson tube amp my pedals are either electro harmonox, zvex, or roger mayer. and this is without a doubt a much more sonically superb setup for a guitar. there is no software that can truley emulate the feel of it or the sound. also i just got a juno 60 because even the best sounding soft synths suck compared to analog. i ordered a mutronix mutator and jomox xbass recently as well. why? because analog is sonically superior to digital. digital filters in essense suck. im not pro this or that. but i am saying that both analog and digital have a place and and people that are strictly one for some reason or another should take their head out of their ass. analog gives you the sound digital gives you the editing. i record analog guitars and synths into logic and live and have me the best of both worlds. obviously though its more economically efficient to have everything digital but if you can aquire analog gear thats just some heavy artillary in the arsenal. if someone posts something in this forum about an analog pedal and your not interested just shut the fuck up we dont need to hear about how live can do this or that and there is no use for it, i for one like to hear about this kind of stuff and cant stand it when people discourage it. a real producer not some paint by numbers kind of guy uses all the tools available for what they do best. its these wannabes that seem to be all up on the hype of the current trend. one more thing, if everybody used the same program with the same plugins it would be like every guitar player having the same guitar and amp, same distortion and chorus pedals which would make everything a little bit stale very quick and thats kind of what this computer thing is doing. analog+digital=more versatlity and unique-ness. 
-
Per Boysen
- Posts: 1058
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:11 pm
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
Yes, I definitely agree that analog + digital makes the best set-up. I would love to be able to cut it with just a laptop but my experience has told me it's still not possible. So I keep on dragging this analog filter bank around to play stratocaster and tenor sax through wile playing two tracks resonance filters inverted cross-chained from a midi expression pedal. It really kicks ass for a cool sound! Thanks to digital technology I can run the filter bank beat synced as I also run Ableton Live synced to a midi clock master hardware real-time loop sampler (Echoplex).
If it wasn't for the richness of analog sound I wouldn't drag all this shit around. The challenge is to minimize the set-up to fit into a rack that won't be too heavy
If it wasn't for the richness of analog sound I wouldn't drag all this shit around. The challenge is to minimize the set-up to fit into a rack that won't be too heavy
[quote="Anonymous"] analog+digital=more versatlity and unique-ness. [/quote]
Hello,
Someone promotes into a forum like this then a discussion should be allowed.
However what you hear out from an speaker is always analog
The trend today is going to digital amps, tube simulators and effects using DSPs. So many of the hardware today looks analog but it isnt.
The idea that analog sounds better and can not be reached by software is a fairy tale!
Its the size of the speakers and their limitations, the loudness and the room you're playing in and the way how you play it (i don't mean tree chord playing level) and not the gear before the speakers. Its a hardware limitation in fact. You can not expect a good sound coming out of a bad laptop soundcard. If you are used to hear tube sounds (wich have been originated from a technical limitation) then get the parameters right in your software or the effect pedal using a DSP and get good hardware. Many of the sounds on MTV or radio you think is analog was built digital.
Everybody using the same software sounds the same is not an argument. Its like as you would say that everyone using MS Word writes the same letter with the same spelling and the same sentences. Stupid!
Today you can build a digital signal exactly the same as an analog signal with all of its hardware related limitations, the only difference seems to be the religion of the guy using this signal.
What I want is some hardware in the size of a coin with a KI doing all the sound and effects, recording and what ever and just let me play my guitar
Sincerely
Karl (Not anonymous!)
Hello,
Someone promotes into a forum like this then a discussion should be allowed.
However what you hear out from an speaker is always analog
The trend today is going to digital amps, tube simulators and effects using DSPs. So many of the hardware today looks analog but it isnt.
The idea that analog sounds better and can not be reached by software is a fairy tale!
Its the size of the speakers and their limitations, the loudness and the room you're playing in and the way how you play it (i don't mean tree chord playing level) and not the gear before the speakers. Its a hardware limitation in fact. You can not expect a good sound coming out of a bad laptop soundcard. If you are used to hear tube sounds (wich have been originated from a technical limitation) then get the parameters right in your software or the effect pedal using a DSP and get good hardware. Many of the sounds on MTV or radio you think is analog was built digital.
Everybody using the same software sounds the same is not an argument. Its like as you would say that everyone using MS Word writes the same letter with the same spelling and the same sentences. Stupid!
Today you can build a digital signal exactly the same as an analog signal with all of its hardware related limitations, the only difference seems to be the religion of the guy using this signal.
What I want is some hardware in the size of a coin with a KI doing all the sound and effects, recording and what ever and just let me play my guitar
Sincerely
Karl (Not anonymous!)
-
Verroom
I wasn't looking to start an analog -> digital war, just give the Live community a preview of something that might enhance some of your setups.
I use Live and Cubase SX with tons of plugins - my fave being the GreenMachine amp sims. I also use a Godin Multiac and a GR-33. When I met Dave, the predal's designer, I was totally digital and he was totally analog. He's got a pedal board that gives him the most amazing sounds that has a warmth to it that is really hard to get out of the digital stuff. OTOH, I've since shown him the "light" about Live and what can be accomplished with plug-in's to the point where he's thinking of doing a hybrid pedal for his next project.
As I understand it, the really big difference with analog comes in the saturation. Tubes and analog circuits - when pushed beyond their limits - have a warm, compression effect to them while the digital stuff goes off into a horrible digital distortion. This seems to be where the sonic possibilities with analog kick in that digital doesn't have [yet].
Anyway - the Envelope Phaser has been designed to be a "boutique" pedal and will have a limited production run. It isn't for everyone, but as I said, it really rocks for those that want this type of sound.
Cheers - Verne Andru [not anonymous]
www.VerneAndru.com
I use Live and Cubase SX with tons of plugins - my fave being the GreenMachine amp sims. I also use a Godin Multiac and a GR-33. When I met Dave, the predal's designer, I was totally digital and he was totally analog. He's got a pedal board that gives him the most amazing sounds that has a warmth to it that is really hard to get out of the digital stuff. OTOH, I've since shown him the "light" about Live and what can be accomplished with plug-in's to the point where he's thinking of doing a hybrid pedal for his next project.
As I understand it, the really big difference with analog comes in the saturation. Tubes and analog circuits - when pushed beyond their limits - have a warm, compression effect to them while the digital stuff goes off into a horrible digital distortion. This seems to be where the sonic possibilities with analog kick in that digital doesn't have [yet].
Anyway - the Envelope Phaser has been designed to be a "boutique" pedal and will have a limited production run. It isn't for everyone, but as I said, it really rocks for those that want this type of sound.
Cheers - Verne Andru [not anonymous]
www.VerneAndru.com
I spent some time trying to make my guitar sound like I want (in that case - a rather acoustic jazzsound) using only software. to no good. I switched on the tube amp, set a good microphone in front. smiled and played.The idea that analog sounds better and can not be reached by software is a fairy tale! (...) If you are used to hear tube sounds (wich have been originated from a technical limitation) then get the parameters right in your software or the effect pedal using a DSP and get good hardware. Many of the sounds on MTV or radio you think is analog was built digital.
It would be nice to do everything with software - I just don't believe in it. may be true for the distorted sound - but if we are discussing clean guitar - it's still not ready. It sounds so small and narrow to me. I think the way tubes respond to dynamics and the speaker interacts with the power amp is very complex. may be so with effects - I still did not manage to get a cry-baby out of software....
latency is yet another issue - unless you are on a tdm-system.
right!Everybody using the same software sounds the same is not an argument. Its like as you would say that everyone using MS Word writes the same letter with the same spelling and the same sentences. Stupid!
...just trying to figure out how to make my computer sing....
[quote="Verroom"]I wasn't looking to start an analog -> digital war, just give the Live community a preview of something that might enhance some of your setups.[/quote]
Hello,
it can still be a discussion and there is no reason to go into a war. This is neither my intention.
First - Music and its making depends on the personal taste. Its a real personal thing and is, as far as I'm concerned, a human right.
Under this premise, let me say this:
As normal users we work with pretty shitty hardware in opposition of what would be technically possible today. No one is working with a Cray to make music. The algorithms are known and much further then what normal user hardware can handle.
This is one thing. Another is that a guitar has much more ways to play then a keyboard (no flames please). A lot of the sound comes from the way of playing before its picked up and transformed into a signal and leaves the guitar. I experienced that a lot of my students neglect this right away and try to compensate this with a bunch of pedals.
But, more then once in my life I was looking for a special tool to bring me a step further. Your "Envelope Phaser" could be something like that for someone, no doubt.
I used to play about 15 Jears with an old Gibson L5 and a Polytone amp having big problems on stage to control unwanted clashes with other instrument frequencies. That was the price for the sound. Today I think I got this quite similar sound with less effort on digital systems (and Live) and with much more posibilities playing a godin multiac jazz. I'm still interested in things what I can not do with it.
As written in an other post I'm still using a pure analog H&K Tube Factor because my machine is to slow to handle bounded outputs or nonlinear effects. We are not so far yet but on the way to get this things all together on one place. And this will be a software on ripened hardware.
So stay cool and have fun.
I've fun when discussing about my lifeblood; music
Sincerely
Karl
Hello,
it can still be a discussion and there is no reason to go into a war. This is neither my intention.
First - Music and its making depends on the personal taste. Its a real personal thing and is, as far as I'm concerned, a human right.
Under this premise, let me say this:
As normal users we work with pretty shitty hardware in opposition of what would be technically possible today. No one is working with a Cray to make music. The algorithms are known and much further then what normal user hardware can handle.
This is one thing. Another is that a guitar has much more ways to play then a keyboard (no flames please). A lot of the sound comes from the way of playing before its picked up and transformed into a signal and leaves the guitar. I experienced that a lot of my students neglect this right away and try to compensate this with a bunch of pedals.
But, more then once in my life I was looking for a special tool to bring me a step further. Your "Envelope Phaser" could be something like that for someone, no doubt.
I used to play about 15 Jears with an old Gibson L5 and a Polytone amp having big problems on stage to control unwanted clashes with other instrument frequencies. That was the price for the sound. Today I think I got this quite similar sound with less effort on digital systems (and Live) and with much more posibilities playing a godin multiac jazz. I'm still interested in things what I can not do with it.
As written in an other post I'm still using a pure analog H&K Tube Factor because my machine is to slow to handle bounded outputs or nonlinear effects. We are not so far yet but on the way to get this things all together on one place. And this will be a software on ripened hardware.
So stay cool and have fun.
I've fun when discussing about my lifeblood; music
Sincerely
Karl
different worlds
I don't think digital sounds like analoge. and analoge doesn't sound like digital. differnt worlds.
digital simulations of tube gear can be fun. best example should be iZotope Trash. but it's still complete different from using a tube amp with speakers. the only thing that really sounds real, is my Palmer SPeaker simulator PDI-03 when feeding a tube-amp.
I think simulation is a 'safe' act of most software developers. I rather use something which sounds new and fresh. why simulating the minimoog etc. ?
digital simulations of tube gear can be fun. best example should be iZotope Trash. but it's still complete different from using a tube amp with speakers. the only thing that really sounds real, is my Palmer SPeaker simulator PDI-03 when feeding a tube-amp.
I think simulation is a 'safe' act of most software developers. I rather use something which sounds new and fresh. why simulating the minimoog etc. ?
-
Verne Andru
Just a quick NAMM update. The Pigtronix boys took their prototypes down and had a great time.
Jazz legend John Scofield and Eric Krasno of Soulive both fell in love with the pedal picked one up. Drop by the Artist section at www.Pigtronix.com to find out more.
Cheers – Verne
www.VerneAndru.com
Jazz legend John Scofield and Eric Krasno of Soulive both fell in love with the pedal picked one up. Drop by the Artist section at www.Pigtronix.com to find out more.
Cheers – Verne
www.VerneAndru.com
I love Sco
Sco plays some mean guitar with Avi's 16ths Chic thing 
Well the tendency is clearly towards doing guitar signal processing on the computer, and programs like Amplitube are well suited to that (or the wicked-sounding Guitar Amp from Emagic), but as a guitarist, I still can't see myself depending solely on a computer on stage for several reasons, maybe someone here can help me solve them:
1 - The computer still isn't reliable enough - and I cannot risk crashing in mid-performance.
2 - The sound quality inside Logic etc may be OK - but we all know how it is: You need to tweak the EQ or some such parameter during the performance. How do you go about that with a laptop? I mean, the mouse clearly is the most indirect and impractical way of doing this when compared to real knobs.
3 - Speakers: What do you use for power amplification and speakers? Do you use the house PA, in which case you'd have to insist on a very high-quality one (I've played in clubs with the shittiest PAs, and wouldn't want to use those for my guitar signal). This means you'd still have to carry a power amp and speaker, which renders the portability point invalid.
FYI, here are articles about John McLaughlin, who now uses a Powerbook setup:
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2 ... claughlin/
http://www.emagic.de/home/artists/artis ... =EN&NUM=13
..... so it's clear it can be done....
Cheers,
Roland
1 - The computer still isn't reliable enough - and I cannot risk crashing in mid-performance.
2 - The sound quality inside Logic etc may be OK - but we all know how it is: You need to tweak the EQ or some such parameter during the performance. How do you go about that with a laptop? I mean, the mouse clearly is the most indirect and impractical way of doing this when compared to real knobs.
3 - Speakers: What do you use for power amplification and speakers? Do you use the house PA, in which case you'd have to insist on a very high-quality one (I've played in clubs with the shittiest PAs, and wouldn't want to use those for my guitar signal). This means you'd still have to carry a power amp and speaker, which renders the portability point invalid.
FYI, here are articles about John McLaughlin, who now uses a Powerbook setup:
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2 ... claughlin/
http://www.emagic.de/home/artists/artis ... =EN&NUM=13
..... so it's clear it can be done....
Cheers,
Roland
pure tone
when I am playing live I try to keep my tone pure and simple. most of the time I just take a Vox, a wahwah and a tubescreamer. But without effects the tone is even a little better with more dynamics and high end.
in the past I have used 19" racks but that was causing a lot of trouble when playing. I just love to play instead of pushing pedals or thinking about other things than just... play.
for some players lots of effects work fine. for me, a simple setup works best. pure and direct tones I am after
in the past I have used 19" racks but that was causing a lot of trouble when playing. I just love to play instead of pushing pedals or thinking about other things than just... play.
for some players lots of effects work fine. for me, a simple setup works best. pure and direct tones I am after