Live 2.1.2 OS9 crashes when I quit, STILL...

[Istvan]

Hello Ableton folks and Forum readers,

I have had Ableton since 1.5,
and have used it fairly rarely
only because it crashes so often when I quit
(as well as other issues earlier on).

In this present version of Live(2.1.2)
I had hoped it WOULDN'T crash when I quit.
I noticed that after startup
I got a message "Unity Server requires CarbonLib 1.5 or greater".
Then: I test the program by playing an older file
(I managed to save it BEFORE quitting)...
seems to work fine
(makes me happy and full of hope),
then when I quit and:

either

A) "Rewire VERIFY" error message, and then a Type 10 BOMB,

or

B) "Rewire VERIFY failure", and "The App unexpectedly quit, error type 3"

I just installed a fresh copy of OS9, and updated it to 9.2.2

I also made sure that the ASIO drivers for the MOTU 2408mkIII and 828 were in Ableton's ASIO folder.

HHHHHEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!
please?



OS9.2.2, 466Mhz G4, 1.5Gigs Ram, MOTU 2408mkIII and 828,
2 firewire external drives (Maxtor 80gig, LaCie 120gig),
Adaptec SCSI card (for sampler),
griffin g4 serial port (for MOTU MTP AV MIDI).
DP3.11, Reason 2.5, Unity Session.
I'm on a LAN, as well.
Its complicated, but everything else works fine.

All drivers seem to be up to date, firmware's up to date,
Live 2.03 seemed to work good
(but had the same quitting problem for me).

Waiting with hope,
-Istvan

[istvan_bracz]

I forgot to log on,
-Istvan

[Alex]

Hi istvan_bracz,

"Unity Server requires CarbonLib 1.5 or greater".

This is not a message of Live. Maybe it's from a VST plug.
(Btw. It's a good idea to update the carbonlib to the latest version, at least 1.6)

"Rewire VERIFY"

Also this comes not directly from Live. It looks like debug code from ReWire library. Do you have had installed any beta version of Reason?

regards,
Alex

[istvan_bracz]

I reinstalled REASON, and Unity Session, and then....
Ableton worked about three times.
(I cant tell you how happy I was...)

After that, it froze on me EVERY time I STARTED it,
which is going back to an OLDER problem that I had already spent
millions of frustrating late-night hours trying to troubleshoot...
Also I got "Ableton: error type 10" for the first time,
and researching it seems to indicate
possibly bad use of pointers in the program's code.
At least the "REWIRE verify" error was gone!

Ableton folks, PLEASE:
I run several MAC labs, G4s with MIDI setups,
and I have NEVER ever had so many problems
with a single program through all of its upgrade incarnations as yours.
This is not me irresponsibly complaining or flaming...its a sad fact.
I am troubleshooting it, because I wish to order a bunch of copies
for the High-schools and University music labs
because I love its philosophy as a creative tool!

I am also SURE that there are many folks out there
who are using your program WITHOUT all the
freezing and crashing behaviour.
Do you honestly think I should pay more money
"on good faith" that your upgrade will work,
when the program has not worked consistently for me?

There is another possiblilty that I will consider:
Bad RAM.
This I will test this week-end, to see if it could be the ghost of these problems.
BUT, my G4 doesn't indicate this with other programs
that run well.
If I determine that the problem is NOT your coding, I might order the upgrade...

As I had requested before:
Please post an "Example-extension-list" of what works for YOU
when you are testing the program and you are convinced it is solid.
All it takes is saving the list in TEXT format in the Extensions Manager,
and posting it. As a guideline for the people who support you,
it would be immensely helpful.

yours "frustratedly", but truly,
-Istvan


OS9.2.2, and OSX.2.6
G4 466, 1.5gigs Ram, 2 internal Hds, and 2 external FW Hds,
Adaptec SCSI card (for sampler), g4 serial port (for MOTU MIDI interface),
MOTU 2408mkIII and pci card, Hp printer

[Alex]

Hi Istvan,

I can understand how frustrating this must be but it's really hard to something here because there so different problems.

Ableton worked about three times.
After that, it froze on me EVERY time I STARTED it,

Indeed it is strange, that it runs 3 times and then start to freeze. So the question is, what changed between the 3th and the 4th start of Live?
At least you can send me the log file of Live, maybe I can see at which point it feezes. You find the log file here: ".../Preferences/Ableton/Live 2.1.2/Log.txt"

Do you honestly think I should pay more money
"on good faith" that your upgrade will work,
when the program has not worked consistently for me?

To make it short, no. But "good faith" is not needed because the behaviour can be checked with the demo version.
Another point is that it would be helpful to have these issue in our beta period. In a beta periode we have a wider range of trying out things or to add some special test code. So I'm not sure if our new release Live 3 will work better for you.

Please post an "Example-extension-list" of what works for YOU
when you are testing the program and you are convinced it is solid.
All it takes is saving the list in TEXT format in the Extensions Manager,
and posting it. As a guideline for the people who support you,
it would be immensely helpful.

I'm not sure if this will help you much because the result will just be the list of extension after installing a fresh OS 9. I would like to know if other companies provide such a list.


- Furthermore I would like to know if you experiences are the same under OS X (because you wrote you use also OS X 10.2.6).
- I also would like to know what happened when you start the Live 3 demo

regards,
Alex

[istvan_bracz]

Hi Ableton folks.
I want to truly congratulate you
on a very cool version 3
which works for me on OSX!!!!!!!!!!
I love it...
finally...

but I've given-up
with profound disgust
with the OS9 version(s).
Two words: Pointless Frustration.
I was planning on purchasing a bunch for at least one music lab...
because they use OS9, not X (at least not until next year, late).

The fact that you guys are unwilling to put-out
a trouble-shooting extension list, purely for example,
is indeed worrisome,
and it really shouldn't matter if other companies do it or not.
Are you committed to making your product
as good as possible for your users (some of which are pretty hard-core)?
Several earlier versions of big software packages
gave advice on running a "lean-extension set",
and would give you examples of extensions that may cause problems...
this saved me a LOT of time and pointless frustration,
and made me loyal to them (for ten years now).

Its too bad you guys weren't willing to step up to that plate.


I'll love the Version 3, though...because it works.

I'll not send you the log file from OS9...just forget it.
I've wasted WAY too much of MY life on it.

-Istvan

[Beatworld]

Istvan I have a very similar set-up:

OS 9.2.2 (Carbon Lib 1.6)
Single G4 533, 2 x 80Gb internal, Adaptec 2906 scsi for EMU E5000 Ultra
1.12Gb RAM
MOTU 2408 Mk II (PCI 324 Sound manager extension 1.1 and ASIO 324 driver 2.1)
ReBirth 2.01
Cubase VST 5.2
ReWire Extension 1.4.7 build 74
Stealth card with MOTU Fastlane serial midi interface
Live 3.0 with 219 Mb of RAM allocated
TC Powercore running 1.6.1
Waves Gold Bundle 3.5
Peak VST 2.62
Spark LE 2.02
etc, etc

Now here comes the bit you probably don't want to hear but can now anticipate...........Live 3.0 (and all earlier versions from 1.5) works really well, certainly no crashes/freezes on quitting Live.

So if nothing else it proves that Live can work well on OS 9.2.2

As for extensions, altho I have a custom/lean set I created mainly for Cubase, the reality is that since 9.x the extensions just don't seem so critical, not like they were in 7.x and 8.x.

I can't remember the last time I booted in the Custom set.

The only non-music software I have on the Mac is Internet stuff, Jam, Toast, Label Printer, Office and some other stuff but definately no games or crap like that.

If you would like me to print out a list of my extensions and send them just ask.

I see you run OSX with a 466 G4.....that strikes me as amazing!.
I have just ordered a Powerlogix 1.2Gb G4 to give Panther a go.

Good luck

Murray