Is Hardware Dead? Am I dead? Very off topic...

itch · Post by **itch** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:35 pm

"oh yes. so is freedom and possibility a bad thing for art?
yes ,and no..this is like asking the ultimate truth of order vs chaos.its an endless but facinating debate

do we need to limit ourselves to create?
yes, because limits are reference points, barriers in the sea of chaos, flashlights on a map point towards the rendez-voouz rave.this ofcourse may not apply if you have the vision of where your going?

does a bad workman blame his tools?

yes, there used to be an old Russian proverb in the ballet. that said "a bad dancers balls always get in the way",well you get the drift?

hope this adds more fuel to the fire..
happy holidays!!!!

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:54 am

itch wrote:hope this adds more fuel to the fire..

Keep on trollin' baby!

-Alex

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:09 pm

Oh for crying out loud. Can PC knob polishers and fundamentalist Mac Nazi's learn to get along in 2004. Grief, it's like listening to a bunch of bitching schoolgirls.

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:13 pm

Anonymous wrote:Oh for crying out loud. Can PC knob polishers and fundamentalist Mac Nazi's learn to get along in 2004. Grief, it's like listening to a bunch of bitching schoolgirls.

It just goes to back up my argument for ridding this forum of trolls from anonymous guests. Make people log in if they want to post. This would cut down on 95% of the trolling.

If you're too fucking lazy to log in, put a checkmark next to the "log in automatically" checkbox.

-Alex

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:13 pm

And who exactly the fuck do you think you are? You're running this forum now I take it?? As far as I can see you, and yes others, just keep whining on and on about your bullshit "I am right" opinions and irritating each other plus those reading these forums.

Oh and by the way, it is an option on these forums as to wether someone signs in. An option made by the pople who set them up. I'll sign is as fucking Burt Reynolds if you want and not as a guest if that somehow pleases you and validates someone putting a view on here in your thick as pig shit eyes.

What a pretentious, pious, arrogant, irritating, psuedo-superioir, know-all, know-nothing, whining person you are. You don't help the situation here, you just attack anyone that dares to have a different view to you and it makes you feel validated because you have "signed in". WTF does that prve you idiot? People could sign is as Mickey Mouse and you would repsect their point of view somehow more?

Go on.. please bore anyone that reads this thread some more with your inane whinging and dogmatic bollocks.

By the way. I am a legitimate user of Live and I will choose as to if I sign in here or not, not because YOU say so, whoever the hell you are.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:50 pm

Alex Reynolds wrote:Some things with hardware are:

-- more "human"-scale interface that can lend itself to faster and more fruitful exploration

-Alex

And thats exactly why software simply cannot compete with hardware yet.

Can you imagine having Virtual Sex. Im sure it would be great, but eventually we would miss something that we couldnt quit eput our finger on

Call it the analog/human factor?

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:24 am

Anonymous wrote:By the way. I am a legitimate user of Live and I will choose as to if I sign in here or not, not because YOU say so, whoever the hell you are.

Keep on trollin' baby, whoever the hell you are!

-Alex

Moonburnt · Post by **Moonburnt** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:29 am

Personally I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to log in. It takes NO effort. I logged in once and only once, and I'm still logged in. As a courtesy to others, why not at least type a name if you're logged in as a guest, or maybe people are suffering from some strange paranoia?

Alex Reynolds · Post by **Alex Reynolds** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:33 am

Anonymous wrote:And thats exactly why software simply cannot compete with hardware yet.

Can you imagine having Virtual Sex. Im sure it would be great, but eventually we would miss something that we couldnt quit eput our finger on

Call it the analog/human factor?

Humans are analog: interface it ultimately where its at. Interface is probably why everyone loves Live so much. Features are only nice if you can get to use them without too much trouble.

I'd guess that a holographic or interference interface based on something like MIT's Audiopad [1] is where future software instruments will need to go.

But what's missing with this, and with software, is the tactile feeling that hardware provides.

MIDI controllers are the current compromise to get beyond the screen and dimensional limitations of the laptop, which end up limiting the instrument.

Squarepusher's manic bass becomes a string of MIDI instructions, for example. [2]

For non-electronic musicians, DJs stick with vinyl or CD decks that offer the vinyl interface. [3] More evidence of what is lacking in electronic music today.

Live itself is two-dimensional by design. Pure automation is only allowed -- and even then can be problematic -- by way of third-party applications [4,5,6].

Can't easily grimace musically when there's nothing to grab onto other than a mouse. [7]

Playing with Live really could be called virtual sex, humping dead air and making silly noises...

[1] http://web.media.mit.edu/~jpatten/audiopad/
[2] http://squarepusher.watmm.com/articles/ ... rvie.shtml
[3] http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=h ... c_id=89521
[4] http://www.apple.com/applescript/uiscripting/
[5] http://www.cesoft.com/products/qkx.html
[6] http://www.loudinc.com/audio/loudk/
[7] http://www.angelfire.com/ak/captainofth ... ngers.html

LiveXXX · Post by **LiveXXX** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:53 am

My 2 cents:

Real analog synths sounds better than any virtual analog or vsti plug in... and dare I say by quite a lot too.

Also... there's nothing more creative than turning on my Electrocomp-101 and having it go nuts and bam musical ideas shoot into my brain.

BUT

I feel effects sound better (I have a Powercore) and are more creative (GRM Tools) than any hardware boxes.

AND

Harness all this with Cubase into a great solid structured song.

THEN

Take all the parts seperate and make an amazing remix in LIVE

And one last thought:

The #1 instrument is the voice... a great mic is the best hardware you can own.

ok... so some of this isnt directly on topic... I think the best is to mix it up these days... 100% computer is a little lackluster on the synth and creative side to me....

Just an opinion...

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:51 am

Live's interface is complete and utter crap when you compare it to a guitar or a piano... I want a touch screen or maybe just more keyboard control. I don't know about you lot, but I have ten fingers on two hands... why oh why can I only use one digit to control Live?

-Paws

kgmonarch · Post by **kgmonarch** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:43 pm

noisetonepause wrote:Live's interface is complete and utter crap when you compare it to a guitar or a piano... I want a touch screen or maybe just more keyboard control. I don't know about you lot, but I have ten fingers on two hands... why oh why can I only use one digit to control Live?

-Paws

Don't sweat it. Just get a MIDI controller like a Peavey 1600X or a Kenton Control Freak. Assign all the controllers you want. Heck, Live 3 lets you set up your piano keyboard to play samples like an instrument. It's fun, man!

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:04 pm

Ah, but I've never played an electric piano that I actually liked. Including the 8000 quid Yamaha Digital Grands... I know you can do it like that, but it's just not the same as a proper acoustic. Or any acoustic for that matter.

And I wasn't talking about triggering the samples so much as about editing them and such.

I'd like a touch screen (that actually worked, mind). A big one. Or something like the computers in Minority Report

-Paws

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:01 pm

I'm sure many people missed the personality and tactile control of their horses when trains came to be, but trains made the world smaller, brought us closer together and let us concentrate on higher things than cleaning out shit and having to shoot it when it gets ill. Trains meant that anyone could travel and do it faster, therefore extended our possibilities as humans and accelerated our culture.

sorry for the convoluted metaphor, maybe you can think of a better one

YES the digital interface is not good enough YET, but the sheer depth and wealth of sonic possibilities easily outweighs this. I spose the whole question is a matter of preference, whether you want more sonic control or more sonic possibilities.

although i do think its just a matter of time...
(carefully) i think the future for humankind lies within the interface.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:45 pm

Hey, there's a reason I'm on this forum - I might like horses, but I still couldn't live without trains!!

-Paws

Is Hardware Dead? Am I dead? Very off topic...

f*ckin luddites!