v6: About time they stopped calling it "Live"...

[deva]

all I can say in response to your comments is in no version more than this one have I been able to sit down and just fuck around with things and be close to an actually usable live set purely improvised on the fly.

And oddly enough alot of that was down to the new sampler everyone is so uncertain of - honestly the real time tweakability of that sucker is amazing

IMO The reason people like Live is not because they only want to use it for live use, but because it is a really nice alternative to the left-right horizontal thinking of traditional sequencers and that if you can really jam with it and play it like an instrument then you can write better and more quickly

That says it well for me... It is the closest to a real instrument for me for computer based music creation.

[dpel]

I understood that Live was originally conceived as live performance software.

Hence the name.

However, every version seems to be step away from live performance towards studio work.

Instead of completely dominating the live performance software market (which Ableton could easily do) they seem intent on making it just another DAW. And now that other DAWs can warp just as well as Live, they don't even have their original unique selling point in that market any more...

I'm sure they have their reasons. Maybe the market for live performance software is just too small, so owning a tiny corner of the DAW market is more profitable than dominating the live performance market. But maybe the market for live performance is big genough, but until they sort out fundamental issues that have existed since the earliest versions (like, say, the cross-fader curve) live performers have to look elsewhere - so Ableton aren't going to sell as many copies to live performers as they could.

I believe Ableton have lost their way. I don't believe Live 6 is true to their original vision. Ableton efforts are increasingly diluted as they seem to be more concerned with moving into new areas (DAWs, plug-in instruments, video...) than making sure their product does what's fundamental to existing areas first. The result is that Live is becoming a jack of all trades and a master of none. Fine, if you want one application that can do a bit of everything. Not so good if you want a really comprehensive live performance application (or even a comprehensive DAW).

When I first came across Live I thought it would be wonderful for live performance. But lately I've been think of going back to hardware. I only seem to use a couple of things in Live 5 that weren't in Live 3, and I haven't seen anything on Live 6's feature list that appeals to me.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe alpha and beta testers will reveal functionality that Ableton haven't yet mentioned. We'll see...

But right now it seems that Live 6 is a very nice DAW. However, I've already got a DAW that I'm happy with. What I need is live performance software. Live 6 doesn't seem to be it.

So at least be honest about it. Change the name. I look forward to seeing "Ableton Studio 6" in the shops. But I won't be buying it.

Let's see if you feel the same way using something else for a little while say
Logic?

[glitchrock-buddha]

grb, you talking midi or audio?

Sorry to bring this back from page one, but I went to bed. Now I'm up. I was talking audio, should have clarified that. Ya for midi, I can just make an empty clip of a certain length and record in it. But I'm thinking for guitar/turntables etc. My problem here is that when I want to record say a 4 bar loop, but I want it to stop recording after four bars and keep playing continuously. I'm talking about session view here btw. I've tried using punch out, but clips just keep recording. I just don't know how to do this, perhaps it's obvious. Currently I find I must hit return at some point before i want the recording to end, and if I'm scratching at the turntables or playing guitar, I'd rather not have to do that, and just have it punch out in the cip. Ya know?

hope I didn't hijack the thread. This is going on the "justification for live to be called live" idea.

btw, since the abe's seem to be aiming to give us the option whether we use this software as a live or studio tool, I think it should be called "Abletob Pro Choice" see how easy that is in the search engine...

grb

[robbmasters]

Let's see if you feel the same way using something else for a little while say
Logic?

If you'd read the rest of the thread you'd have seen me say:

after investing over £1,000 in their software and hardware, I stopped using Logic too, when Emagic thought it was "Logical" to go single platform and abandon 35,000 users...

I now use Cubase as my DAW. It's not perfect but is does the job. As I'm sure Live 6 does too. But I don't need (and I don't think the market needs) yet another DAW. I need live performance software...

I don't really care what Ableton call it (although "Tarquin McTroutfeatures" got my vote ). I was just using its name to make the point that its focus has shifted dramatically. And personally I don't think that's a good thing.

[kineticUk]

Is Logic really that much more logical than other DAWs? (including Ableton)
Is reason that much more reasonable? (what, no audio/vst's?...)
Is cubase really that much more...ahh... cub.... umm... nevermind.

well,you get the point.

Yeah I get the point ... Ignorance is Bliss
Firstly no Logic isn't more logical than other DAWS (Its a DAW), Secondly Reason is used by people who like to use it and wtf is up with the cubase umm bollocks.

[forge]

grb, you talking midi or audio?

Sorry to bring this back from page one, but I went to bed. Now I'm up. I was talking audio, should have clarified that. Ya for midi, I can just make an empty clip of a certain length and record in it. But I'm thinking for guitar/turntables etc. My problem here is that when I want to record say a 4 bar loop, but I want it to stop recording after four bars and keep playing continuously. I'm talking about session view here btw. I've tried using punch out, but clips just keep recording. I just don't know how to do this, perhaps it's obvious. Currently I find I must hit return at some point before i want the recording to end, and if I'm scratching at the turntables or playing guitar, I'd rather not have to do that, and just have it punch out in the cip. Ya know?

hope I didn't hijack the thread. This is going on the "justification for live to be called live" idea.

btw, since the abe's seem to be aiming to give us the option whether we use this software as a live or studio tool, I think it should be called "Abletob Pro Choice" see how easy that is in the search engine...

grb

the crazy thing is in version 2 - or maybe 3 you actually could do this - then during the beta phase of the next one it stopped working and I reported it as a bug, then I got a rpley that "this was not possible in Live" and I saidbut I've been doing this for ages and explained exactly what I'd been doing, and then they replied and said "strangely enough no one in the office had used it this way so we didnt realise it could do it but somehow we broke it"

that was the end of it. I remind them now and then but it's never been greeted with a great deal of enthusiasm so I guess it just doesnt fit in with their own concept and not enough people have requested it!

so there's Irony for ya!

[glitchrock-buddha]

the crazy thing is in version 2 - or maybe 3 you actually could do this - then during the beta phase of the next one it stopped working and I reported it as a bug, then I got a rpley that "this was not possible in Live" and I saidbut I've been doing this for ages and explained exactly what I'd been doing, and then they replied and said "strangely enough no one in the office had used it this way so we didnt realise it could do it but somehow we broke it"

that was the end of it. I remind them now and then but it's never been greeted with a great deal of enthusiasm so I guess it just doesnt fit in with their own concept and not enough people have requested it!

so there's Irony for ya!

Hmm, strange. I guess for live audio looping people tend to use a foot controller or something to send a stop recording signal while they are playing?

@kinetic- just messin' around there fella. Wasn't to be taken too literally. I use all those programs I mentioned and love every one. Not sure what the ignorance remark is pertaining to or who's enjoying the resulting bliss. Just a little friendly sarcasm re the 'un-livenes' of a program called Live, a name which I believe is still quite fitting.

regards,

grb

[Heroes]

I think live has power to be whatever it wants to be. be it live, in the studio, or as a dj platform, its adapts itself well to them all, theres nothing else which i can think of that offers that. live studio 6, live jam 6, out on the road 6, as long as there pushing forward which i think they are ill keep shelling out on upgrades,

[Silicon/Silicium]

well until the abes don't go over the limitation of non layered clips, for me the studio way is closed. it could be a creative tool in studio, but in brute audio editing, it's far behind in term of productivity. whatever, it's my live instrument!!!

[Zerobae]

To me the name "Live" never had to do that much with playing shows. I use Live exclusively for about a year now, and I haven't played any shows since 10 years.
"Live" to me means "capture the music while it happens (noodling on a keyboard etc.) without losing any flexibility to further shape it", or something like that.
That's what Live was and still is about, imho.

[SubFunk]

despite the name giving, Live was originally intended to be a Live and not a production tool... (if in doubt ask robert!) and to me it's sad to see that they DO move away from it.

new functions? do we need them for LIVE? ever seen a guitar with 100strings and a trillion efffects? keep it an "instrument" : simple, but working.

if they continue like it , than there is no need for live anymore, as nearly any other DAW outperforms Live by far... except for , well live performance.

i'd rather see that they concentrate on keeping it dead simple and clear, ultra stable and ultra CPU efficient. for anything else there are far more matured and fully developed apps outhere, for me personally, i don't need another DAW, but i need a simple, yet efficient and foremost stable live tool.

just my 2cents.

keep it real, keep it LIVE. nothing else.

[Zerobae]

despite the name giving, Live was originally intended to be a Live and not a production tool... (if in doubt ask robert!)

sorry, but i don't care what it was supposed to be, i only know what i use it for. i skipped the first versions as they weren't mature enough to replace my daw, although i was always very much interested in the session view concept - for composing, not playing live, mind you.

i guess this only shows that live is used in many different ways.
pity though it seems to not work for you any longer.

[SubFunk]

Zerobae wrote:

SubFunk wrote:
despite the name giving, Live was originally intended to be a Live and not a production tool... (if in doubt ask robert!)

sorry, but i don't care what it was supposed to be, i only know what i use it for. i skipped the first versions as they weren't mature enough to replace my daw, although i was always very much interested in the session view concept - for composing, not playing live, mind you.

i guess this only shows that live is used in many different ways.
pity though it seems to not work for you any longer.

fair enough. lot's of users replaced their DAW with live.

pity though it seems to not work for you any longer.

it still does with 5.2, but i only check 6 if i get a new NFR upgrade of my current version.

for everything not Live / DJ related i use well, Logic7

but then again, i don't really want to miss Live and get stuck with an old version... to me personally as i mentioned already a dozen times, they should make the Live and DJ use ablities stronger, more reliable and enhanced rather than enhancing the DAW aspects of the apps.

there are dozens of DAWs out to choose from, but hardly any god Live / DJ tools, to choose from. i just believe that their is a greater need for that market section.

robbmasters wrote:

I stopped using Logic too, when Emagic thought it was "Logical" to go single platform and abandon 35,000 users...

dropping the PC platform was the best decision they ever made!!!
who, as a serious developer of a quality product cares about Microschrott???
i mean that seriously! sorry about your lost money though, then again investing into miroschrott, you have to pay for the mistake!

[Poster]

...

[robbmasters]

sorry about your lost money though, then again investing into miroschrott, you have to pay for the mistake!

It's OK. I saved more money than I lost, by buying PCs instead of Macs.

But let's not turn this into another silly PC vs Mac thread...

However, to answer your question, I'd say that the vast majority of developers of quality (software and/or hardware products) products care about Microsoft as users of Microsoft operating systems are their biggest potential customer base. Now that Emagic is part of Apple it's not completely surprising that they've cut off Windows users as I guess they think they'll make more money by getting PC users to buy Macs (and other Apple software) than they will selling software to PC users. But it's still annoying for any PC users of Logic. And for any Mac users who liked the fact that it was cross-platform.