No New DJ Tools????

[mike holiday]

i don't mean this to sound snarky (seriously), but my solution for this is to know my tunes. i know this may sound simplistic, but having djed vinyl for 11 years, i don't have a "preview" function on my record box. i have to rely on my knowledge of the music i have, and it's worked well for me.

i have to run thru the crate, grab a record i think will work, and drop it on the deck to check. if it works, great. if not...back 2 the crate.

And when doing this, do you listen from the very beginning of the track each time, or needle drop a few places deeper in the record once it's kicking to check it out? Of course you need to know your tunes, but with vinyl you have the option of starting playback anywhere instantly to quickly check a track's compatibility. You can't do this in Live currently without loading all your tunes into the Session view.

oh totally. like i said, i DO see the reason why people want this function, and it does make sense. not poopooing the needs of those asking for this.

but there is something to be said for knowing your tunes. even if the only option you have is a cue channel, that narrows things down quite a bit and makes the process quicker.

AND, i do have to say...i don't have a turntable at home, so when i load up my box for a particular night from a selection of thousands of tunes, i do so without hearing them at all, based on knowing what i have.

i totally agree the function would be great. i just thought i would throw out the idea that perhaps having hundreds or thousands of tunes accessible at any given time can actually be detrimental to knowing your music inside out. it was more of a philosophical noodling, rather than an objection to the need for a scrub option on previewing.

lets forget all of this..and put the focus back on grabing the loop brackit via keystroke/midi






'cause grabbing the loop braket is more fun then grabbing the mouse

[Scube]

Maybe they don't see Djing in Live in their market anymore

Using Live! you are able to compose your own tracks and play them in your live performances. Other softwares don't permit to do this. I think this is the best DJ-software and the best DJ prodution tool also. Can you suggest other similar products?

Scube

[hambone1]

I think some DJs are expecting Live 6 to be a hyper-Traktor clone. If you want to simply play other artist's songs, surely Traktor and the scores of other programs like it are infinitely better tools.

IMO, Live 6 offers massive new DJing possibilities that innovators will use to escape from the "computer as digital record players/CD players" mindset.

I'm not denigrating the "traditional" DJs out there. It's just that I don't see Live being a DJ tool. I think it's more geared toward live performance, creativity, and studio work.

[thx1138]

I think some DJs are expecting Live 6 to be a hyper-Traktor clone. If you want to simply play other artist's songs, surely Traktor and the scores of other programs like it are infinitely better tools.

Agreed to a point, but that is not the general focus of this thread thus far

IMO, Live 6 offers massive new DJing possibilities that innovators will use to escape from the "computer as digital record players/CD players" mindset.

That goes without saying

I'm not denigrating the "traditional" DJs out there. It's just that I don't see Live being a DJ tool. I think it's more geared toward live performance, creativity, and studio work.

Defiantly but the main focus of this thread thus far by many of the Live5 DJ users (who also happen to be members of ALDJ) are tools that can be use to greater facilitate Live Performance

[robtronik]

I think some DJs are expecting Live 6 to be a hyper-Traktor clone. If you want to simply play other artist's songs, surely Traktor and the scores of other programs like it are infinitely better tools.

IMO, Live 6 offers massive new DJing possibilities that innovators will use to escape from the "computer as digital record players/CD players" mindset.

I'm not denigrating the "traditional" DJs out there. It's just that I don't see Live being a DJ tool. I think it's more geared toward live performance, creativity, and studio work.

I disagre as well. This is about having useful tools for long tracks and cueing and having easy accessibility to waveform data to make decisions about how to best mix your music.

Also, Live does things that Traktor cannot and the workflow is wrong for us also producing music in Live and then playing it out with other people's tracks as well. You don't produce music in Traktor.

And the genius of Live is that you can both perform live and produce within the same software tool.

You can call this strictly for DJing but actually these improvements would help the usability of Live overall and benefit most everyone, IMO.

rob.

[supster]

I think some DJs are expecting Live 6 to be a hyper-Traktor clone. If you want to simply play other artist's songs, surely Traktor and the scores of other programs like it are infinitely better tools.

i still dont understand how you are bringing Traktor into this, or who in this thread wants Live to be like Traktor.

i dont understand your point at all apparently

.

[supster]

This is about having useful tools for long tracks and cueing and having easy accessibility to waveform data to make decisions about how to best mix your music.

yes, exactly - this is well put. its not that complicated to understand,

someone could sit and watch me mix for 5 minutes and see what simple features are missing

.

[hoffman2k]

You guys are talking like Ableton completely left out DJ's.
It's not like previewing sections of songs is impossible, it just requires some setting up (live clips or using audio track as preview channel)

I know you guys want features that address these things, so you can just plug and play.
But for every feature request there are potential problems.
We all know what happens when they change the behaviour in Live of features they really don't consider features (playhead scrubbing for example)

Some of the people are just like "add a button here and it's done" or "this only takes 10 seconds to fix".
Those people should be able to implement thos features in 2 minutes without the source code. Figuring it's really just that simple.

But at least you guys are still reasonable, not like those "i hate sampler" guys.

My main point is: what you guys see as just a little button, might be a topic that Ableton debates for weeks.
You're not being forgotten, they're just figuring out ways to serve you. So that you can have your cake and eat it too.

Every potential feature creates new problems, problems create solutions and solutions create even more complex problems.
If that doesn't make sense, do the 30-day free max-msp trai tutorials. Thats a crash course in problems and solutions

[hambone1]

What he said. ^^^

My point that I'm not getting across very well is that IMO 6 makes Live more DJ-oriented than ever, contrary to the OP's "No new DJ tools???" subject, which I don't understand.

There's still room for small improvements (multiple waveform view, file metadata, etc), and my other point is that there may be better solutions (Traktor, etc) out there other than Live for DJs who are trying to shoehorn their traditional non-production-oriented method of DJing into Live.

Obviously, Live is superb for DJing your own Live-produced material, and to me it's indispensable for MIDI control of video and lighting as well as audio, and for incorporating additional audio elements (live surround, live percussion, etc).

Perhaps the misunderstanding comes from the gray area that's developed between DJing and Live Performing.

Never was very good at explaining myself...

[ryansupak]

I've gone back to DJing with hardware for the time being. It seems that the focus of the product is on more in-depth studio applications for the foreseeable future.

I don't need 28 parametric EQs in series, and elaborate routing schemes, for DJing -- but a lot of finesse with the playhead control is nice.

The mouse grab and the nudge/brake are a good start but a lot more attention would need to be paid to the subtleties. Looking good on paper isn't everything.

Once the "wow factor" of being able to do everything from a laptop subsides, I think a lot of people will eventually migrate back to dedicated hardware.

rs
(author of "How To DJ With Live" for Ableton v1)

[hambone1]

And what he said, too! ^^^

[supster]

You guys are talking like Ableton completely left out DJ's.

no, we're not. the thread title and possibly one poster are the only reasons why you could possibly be saying that


this is why so many threads on this board become kind of retarded, honestly. people read too deep into requests and start changing the tone of what was said into something its not.

I know you guys want features that address these things, so you can just plug and play.

again ... no, some of the people are here are developing new ways to "DJ" just as much as you are.

these are not "requests from moppets that play other peoples records the same way.

some of us work just as hard as you do at our own styles of using this program and it blurs the lines between PA, production, and DJing just as much if not more IMO than you do

Every potential feature creates new problems, problems create solutions and solutions create even more complex problems.

yes - this is understandable. i think it highly depends on what you are doing:

if we are asking for a missing shortcut to fill in a LOGICAL gap that serverly limits what we are trying to do, this is a whole lot more trivial than asking to re-write the graphics engine and interface to give dual waveforms

another problem i see on this board is that people are way too concerned about poking holes in features that they havent taken the time to really understand

because they DONT use it that way, so they dont really take an instant to think thru why it would be so important. i think its more reasonable to assume that some people really have good reasons and have thought it thru very carefully ..

.. than it is to make assumptions, then try sway the developers toward getting your features done instead. what a waste of energy


.

[hoffman2k]

I never said anything about trying to sway the developers for any kind of feature. Because i know it's impossible to include something in Live 6 when it's weeks away from hitting the market.

I also never said that guys like you aren't using Live in creative ways.

There are DJ types who are basically asking for traktor. Maybe not in the threads you read, but it's not a generalization, thats my point.

I read ALDJ (and other live forums), i can relate to not having the features i need. (Why do you think i keep coming up with workarounds?)
And it's understandable that some people are upset.
But people who think that a 50 person large company can turn out software like the big boys need a reality check.

One says Live isn't Live anymore, others say that DJ's weren't considered,.....
Then there are those who are happy about multicore, racks, video,......

There's always something good or wrong.

We could keep this debate up for ages if we really wanted to.



-Edit-- Missread the context a bit. But the post can stay.
Sorry if i angered you before you get to this bit
We more or less agree, both passionate enough to speak up.

Live can be used in so many ways. It can also be represented by so many persons.

[leisuremuffin]

a lot of people here seem to have an inflated sense of self importance.

and/or are whiny little bitches.



use what you've got, contribute to the feature wishlist forum, and either buy live 6 or don't.



this isn't directed to any individuals, but to griefers in general. I mean c'mon, live 6 isn't even in beta, and we already have to hear piles of horseshit.


.lm.

[supster]

a lot of people here seem to have an inflated sense of importance.

and/or are whiny little bitches.

i can set my clock by you man your mirror just broke, 7 years bad luck ...

..