Difference between Sampler and Simpler - other than the $200

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:14 am

dpel wrote: Adam,

Are you able to load up an orchestral menu with the Giga sounds and run
smoothly with quicktime playback? any performance issues?

haven't tried that yet. all my Giga stuff is either basses or vintage electric pianos. both of which do run fine and smoothly with QT playback, though probably not as much polyphony as an orchestral.

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:12 am

Sampler is $200????

wtf I thought it was a reason to upgrade to Live6......

This addon product shit is FUCKED.

Ok it's not too bad for bringing in extra cashflow to pay for Live
development. However this making new products and tacking them onto
new versions as if they are an intergral part is simply fucked. The further
this strategy goes the less money will go to Live development and more to
bullshit tackon pluggin development.

Keep this up and Ableton will just be releasing VST (which don't work in other hosts)

Want to develop a multi-sampler...... Then develop it as part of Live.
Want to spend that time on something better for live? Do that then.

But don't spend time on bullshit extras just so u can charge ppl for addons.

-Ben

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:21 am

What's more the FREE VST sampler I'm using has FULL multi-sample
support, with different samples for different velocities as well as notes.

This non-essential "sampler" VST (which only works in Live) from ableton
looks pretty....... Has half the features of most.... Costs twice as much as
others..... and pisses off long-time Live users as they are expected to buy
it as a separate product when their use and loyalty to Live is what paid for
it's devlopment.

Perfect product.... Wins everyones hearts.

I saw the hype shots, thought great, might start using it, would be good to
have it intergrated in live....... what? $200???? FUCK YOU!!!

Simply Fucked Ableton.

-Ben

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:51 am

Oh Ben...
Don't knock it till you tried it.

There's no point in repeating this, but here it goes:

The live upgrade is 99€. You have a sampler? Great.
So what's the problem?

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:29 am

Just feel cheated....

When I buy Live6 I want the whole thing.

Don't want to get to Live10 where it's a few bug fixes (for $200) and 3 new addon products (for $200/ea).

-Ben

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:14 am

MrYellow wrote:Just feel cheated....

When I buy Live6 I want the whole thing.

Don't want to get to Live10 where it's a few bug fixes (for $200) and 3 new addon products (for $200/ea).

-Ben

seriously man, have you not been reading any of the posts about L6?

to call it "just a bug fix" is hugely off the mark - in fact the flexibility all the new features, in particular the device group devices and macros for 99E is probably a steal - in a way it's like a totally new prgram

and people saying all this shit without having tried a beta and calling us fanboys for saying positive things make it sound like ppl just want to moan about something

s.balm · Post by **s.balm** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:47 am

A lot of you have been making music for sometime now. This likely means that many of you own some plug-in instruments already. Many of the instruments you own you may be quite happy with. Why should you have to pay for something you don't need?

Simply put; Not everyone needs a multisampler/synthesizer/sound library, so why should they have to pay for it.

I think that having the option is a positive thing. Perhaps you even decide that you really want them later (ahem..., after trying them).
Hopefully this makes sense to some of you.

BTW, I CAN see the other side of the argument as well...

Best,

s.

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:25 pm

I can see what they're doing, it's not all bad.....

By selling these addons it gives them more cashflow between versions,
which means they don't have to make Live so much bloatware with features
to sell the new version to pay the bills.

Personally I'd prefer an ASP model where I pay $20/mo and Ableton is
under no pressure to develop too many new features in too many new
directions.

It's smart on paper.... but a dangerious slope, now they have to decide
each update which features will be paid and which will be included.

Shit video should be paid if anything...... I don't want or need it in Live....
As it stands now it was a somewhat easy thing to include with basic
features, as the features grow for video I can see the "LIVE" aspect being
left behind a bit.

If Operator was the thin end of the wedge, with Sampler bringing it up a
bit.... What's the thick end? EQ8? Saturator for $50? New stutter plugin for
$39?

I'd much rather pay $20 a month for all of the above, or pay $100 extra on
the upgrade and get the lot.

Lets just say the bundle upgrade price better be attractive with a nice
discount on these addons. Until I see a nice price there (if not the separate
retail price) I'm going to bitch about it.

edit: btw I was clearly talking about Live version 10 when I said nothing but bug fixes.

-Ben

rundll · Post by **rundll** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:31 pm

I have to agree with negative nancys.

When I read the all the hyped up news on the front page I was very very interested indeed. I've been upgrading from Ableton 2 up to 5.2. I even paid for the intel OSX version (pfft the Reason update was free).

When I saw all the great new features in 6 and the sampler I thought, 'wow...I can sell reason and just use ableton live 6'. Then I saw the price tag...TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS??? For a sampler? That only works in Live? You've got to be kidding me.

Operator is a screwy idea too. It's a great synth. But I'm not paying out for it considering how much I've invested in Ableton Live already.

Live6 + Sampler + Operator and I would stop using Reason (bless it's zombies bones)

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:35 pm

I love the way your post is all reasonable and then your sig comes on like a crazy person.

my 2 galacto-creds in the issue

The marketing department made a boo-boo on this, I think they should release Live6 ... then release the new instrument. As it was - everyone got hyped up then told they had topay for what the thought would be included.

BUT
€99 for the Live upgrade = £68 in my local currency

I spent that yesterday on simply eating out, buying some drinks and parking. I will never see that money again. So even if L6 has 3 things I will use repeatedly in 2007 it is well worth the money.
If you are unemployed the situation may be different - but I earn below national average and it seems very cheap to me compared to my hourly rates !

As far as the Sampler goes - there are simply two ways to look at it

1: "I dont need it" - in which case forget about it

2: "I need it" - in which case : it costs 169 € (116.28 UK£)

if you want it, you must decide how much do you want it. is it 169€ amount of want?
If you dont want it that much then you aren't having it. You can join me in category one, where I am making a loaf and drinking a cup of coffee.

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:36 pm

MrYellow wrote:What's more the FREE VST sampler I'm using has FULL multi-sample
support, with different samples for different velocities as well as notes.

Which free sampler are you using?

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:48 pm

Shortcircuit for multisample stuff, covers the features I need.
i.e. multi-samples on multi-velocities.

The marketing department made a boo-boo on this, I think they should
release Live6 ... then release the new instrument. As it was - everyone got
hyped up then told they had topay for what the thought would be included.

Yeah this is what has happened with me...... I saw Sampler though "cool, I
don't have a massive use for it, but hey... with the rack stuff maybe I can
move more of my MIDI bass stuff into a sampler in Live (where it will suffer
less latency) rather then using Forte."...... Then I see Simpler is still
included, and I think "oh they must have done that just as a less CPU
version"..... then I discover Sampler is a completely separate product only
related to Live6 in that it's the only software it will run in... and this
completely separate product being advertised as a new feature for Live6 is
$200.

-Ben

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:28 pm

Angstrom wrote:: I think they should release Live6 ... then release the new instrument. As it was - everyone got hyped up then told they had topay for what the thought would be included.

well, I thought this for a minute because of all the noise, but if you'll remember operator was the same and that came with 4.1

they cant win really, but having used Sampler I dont think it should be free and I think 200E is probably fair

Angstrom wrote: BUT
€99 for the Live upgrade = £68 in my local currency

I spent that yesterday on simply eating out, buying some drinks and parking. I will never see that money again. So even if L6 has 3 things I will use repeatedly in 2007 it is well worth the money.
If you are unemployed the situation may be different - but I earn below national average and it seems very cheap to me compared to my hourly rates !

As far as the Sampler goes - there are simply two ways to look at it

1: "I dont need it" - in which case forget about it

2: "I need it" - in which case : it costs 169 € (116.28 UK£)

if you want it, you must decide how much do you want it. is it 169€ amount of want?
If you dont want it that much then you aren't having it. You can join me in category one, where I am making a loaf and drinking a cup of coffee.

exactly.

dr.wackler · Post by **dr.wackler** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:12 pm

FaX-01 wrote:Here's what I can gather so far from what I've read on sampler.
[...]
Excellent loop point modulation and granular stretching options etc ...

hoffman2k wrote:
Zerobae wrote:
sweetjesus wrote: 3. I've seen granular timestretching in the samplr
I was just about to ask: So I can, you know, sample my pretty voice and make a choir of it? (which is of course the first use of this feature that springs to mind)
Yes you can. Even with automated wavetabling.

As I understand it, the "timestretching" in Sampler is achieved by the trick of start- and/or loop-modulation. So I would have to set up a very short loop, route a upward sawtooth LFO to loop modulation and set the LFO speed to so many bars that it fits the lenght of the sample.

Is this the way it's done, or does Sampler have a true granular algorithm, so that I can just drop a clip from the session view to it, set it to timestretch-mode and it would play back at the same speed as it did in session view?

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:23 pm

dr.wackler wrote:
FaX-01 wrote:Here's what I can gather so far from what I've read on sampler.
[...]
Excellent loop point modulation and granular stretching options etc ...

hoffman2k wrote:
Zerobae wrote: I was just about to ask: So I can, you know, sample my pretty voice and make a choir of it? (which is of course the first use of this feature that springs to mind)
Yes you can. Even with automated wavetabling.
As I understand it, the "timestretching" in Sampler is achieved by the trick of start- and/or loop-modulation. So I would have to set up a very short loop, route a upward sawtooth LFO to loop modulation and set the LFO speed to so many bars that it fits the lenght of the sample.

Is this the way it's done, or does Sampler have a true granular algorithm, so that I can just drop a clip from the session view to it, set it to timestretch-mode and it would play back at the same speed as it did in session view?

yes you're right

Difference between Sampler and Simpler - other than the $200

Re: what's different?

it sucks alright