Live IS a slicer

[b0unce]

It's not about postcount or anything.
It's all about content. For every 25 posts filled with nonsense, there's at least one gem

its not about postcount - exactly my point. Why wasnt supster elected to alpha test ? Cos he calls it how he sees it, thats my feeling on the matter. or he was busy, this remains to be seen. Like I've said, theres at least one alpha tester who was elected sheerly because he's a asskissing mega-poster. That stinks of cynical marketing to me...

also this isnt so much 'live 6' bashing...but criticism of ableton and its apparent business plan. I'm pissed off for how long I waited for live 5 to stabilise and the shoulder shrugging replies from support. It amounted to beta testing the software for them, given the amount of detailed reports I emailed [&tired of]. I didnt use live 5 for months until 5.03 dropped (because it was unusable for on-the-fly loop recording) - , and then 5.03 introduced even more annoying bugs fucking with the sound output and not just fucking with my on-the-fly recording. by the time 5.2 comes out , they've followed that up with an announcement of live 5's replacement, before 5 is barely even stabilised.

so now they are telling me (via they're posts on this forum) that for the months I/we waited for them to fix live 5, the majority of coding was spent working on live6 and more importantly Sampler, an extra-fee device. And no word of any kind of kick-back for the poor shmucks who paid for 5 early on, who waited an obscene amount of time for it to work as it says on the box. On-the-fly looping people, how the -FUCK- is it acceptable to let the 'uNeVeN LoOps' bug go on for as long as it did ? ...an integral part of the program going by their marketing spiel, and integral to my use of the program.

so not only was that live 5 experience a shambles, but before it finished live 6 is announced. with the oh-so-'modular' pricing scheme - it only compounds and revitalises negative feelings from the live 5 endurance test.

there's nothing to suggest that these greedy bastards wont be coding more pay-for features instead of stabilising what we will have already paid for.

what are the chances an extra charge device called 'Slicer' will be available come live 7?....any takers ? 11/5 odds.

abes,
in short, spend your coding time making the current product work AS ADVERTISED and/or stable.

then spend your coding time on its replacement.

Or give the early adopters a greater incentive to keep throwing money at you, seeing as you've already admitted you spent time coding more pay-for-features while the current product suffered.



RE: adamjay and deragatory comments etc
there's at least two varities of trolls on this board. The inflamatory ones and the reactionary ones, adamjay & co have the inflaming down to a fine art. 'tongue in cheek' ...i call BULLSHIT on that one old bean. Do what you do, just dont claim innocence. and dont criticise people for reacting badly to your <sarcasm>not-at-all-pompous</sarcasm> 'tongue-in-cheek' remarks.

[elektrovert]

I think Live's doing too much as it is!
And there's nothing wrong with using different tools for different jobs.
I think they should go back to focusing on a Live as a live performance tool.
If I want to slice things I'll use a proper slicer.
how about putting in an option for using an external wave editor within Live like you can in Logic?

The more Live develops lately the less impressed I am with it.
I don't want it to be a DAW.

[hoffman2k]

so now they are telling me (via they're posts on this forum) that for the months I/we waited for them to fix live 5, the majority of coding was spent working on live6 and more importantly Sampler,

Well thats a halfbaked comment. Figuring less then 5 people worked on sampler.
I think it's the baby of Matthias, the same guy who designed the beat repeat.

Btw, Live 5 is still very much supported. Check the bug and problems forum for the latest update.

[Martyn]

There's nothing wrong with using different tools for different jobs. If I want to slice things I'll use a proper slicer.
how about putting in an option for using an external wave editor within Live like you can in Logic?

I have to agree with this. I do all my intricate midi composing in energyXT which also has a nice built in sampler (with beatslicing if needed). I then export the audio as 24 bit files into Ableton for tracking/editing, because nothing, and I mean nothing on earth comes close to Live for manipulating audio.

BTW We already have an option to open an external audio editor, it's the "edit" button in clip properties.

[stale bread]

I don't think I've used a sliced file for a long while, i generally used to do it in order to quantise audio, so Live makes that job a million times easier, and the reat I do in the arrange window.

I always find that I have to fine tune each slive by hand in recycle, it always seems to put the slice in the wrong place.

Having a stack of identical clips in session view, startpoints set to different beats, ammounts to the same technique as trad D&B style slicing anyway. Just set them up to trigger from your keyboard and jam away.

That said, the free version of shortcircuit makes a great REX file player for Live, you just have to save a midi file from recycle, load all the sliced chromatically and you're away. Great little sampler.

no disrespect intended Martyn but i want to make it clear that all of us asking for a slicer are not talking about using it the way you describe using one, and i'm noticing that this seems to be a continuing theme in most of you guys (anti-slicer) responses.
there is a big difference between Recycle, recycling, rexing a loop,, and what we are asking for in our slicing functionality, the same difference between amg one/liveslice/phatmatik pro-----and Recycle.

I put recycle in my earlier list because it made it easier for people to understand slicing who are not familiar with the other apps i listed but recycle is not a vst, and you can not trigger slices with it n a sequencer, therefore you can not 'slice' and 'go', ... that is what we are after sample editing, slicing, slice effecting, and slice sequencing on the go quick and easy in one place with-in Live without having to resort to 3rd party software.

we don't want to slice in arrange, and prepare and then drag to impulse, and we don't want to just rex up some loops and have a dr rex in Live that can play those loops.

I'm a samplist, i'm in a band, I want to record my band into live and quickly slice up the audio, I want to raid my vinyL collection and quickly sample slice up and mangle audio, I want to take my vstis synths and route them into the slicer or sampler with slicer and slice up my audio, and I want to take all of those individual slices and pan them differently pitch them differently filter them differently route them to different outputs and rearrange them.....
but I want to do it all quickly like you can in LiveSlice, and I want to be able to slice up mp3 files too, and a bonus would be to be able to slice up the audio that comes with the soon to be video files i'll be using when i upgrade

so you see recycle is not enough. Phatmatik pro is an old app, compared to live it should be over the hill..... I'd like phatmatiks 3 year old features in Live 6 when it comes out.

[stale bread]

There's nothing wrong with using different tools for different jobs. If I want to slice things I'll use a proper slicer.
how about putting in an option for using an external wave editor within Live like you can in Logic?

I have to agree with this. I do all my intricate midi composing in energyXT which also has a nice built in sampler (with beatslicing if needed). I then export the audio as 24 bit files into Ableton for tracking/editing, because nothing, and I mean nothing on earth comes close to Live for manipulating audio.

BTW We already have an option to open an external audio editor, it's the "edit" button in clip properties.

hey that's cool, nothing wrong with using other tools, but since day one that hasn't been and in my humble opinion nor should it ever be ableton Lives ethos to 'use other tools', , ableton have always strived to make it possible for us to do everything we need right in Live, from its Live performance features to its great efx to it's handling and manipulation of loops and triggering, there is no reason in the universe for ableton to drop the ball when it comes to the most basic features of loop manipulation which is slicing.

so i think energy xt is cool to, and you know jorgen can make a bad ass sampler and slicer but that has little to do with Live and I hope the abletonians are not puting in a slicer or not into the sampler based on what jorgen is doing in energy xt

[elektrovert]

BTW We already have an option to open an external audio editor, it's the "edit" button in clip properties.

I should read the manual more

[b0unce]

so now they are telling me (via they're posts on this forum) that for the months I/we waited for them to fix live 5, the majority of coding was spent working on live6 and more importantly Sampler,

Well thats a halfbaked comment. Figuring less then 5 people worked on sampler.
I think it's the baby of Matthias, the same guy who designed the beat repeat.

Btw, Live 5 is still very much supported. Check the bug and problems forum for the latest update.

halfbaked: 5 people worked on sampler, is that your own halfbaked theory or is that fact? If its fact, how many worked on stabilising live 5 ? The point is those 5 coders could have worked on the bugs till they were sorted, then worked on sampler OR ableton could give early adopters of live 5 a better deal when upgrading. course they can do what they like, but all notions of a lovey-dovey independent company are out the window, imo.



live 5 still supported: not supported enough obviously, read my earlier post - it took too damn long to address bugs which were integral to the advertised-functioning of live, and its intended use going by THEIR spiel. theres a disproportionate amount of resources going into developing new pay-for features compared to the length of time it took to stabilise 5.

all I want is a better deal for the early adopters of live 5 when upgrading to 6 &or its subsidary devices.

(you shouldnt have to send kiss-ass emails hoping they'll cut you a break, the deal should be open & transparent and thus available to all those in the same situation. its definatly ableton practice to say nothing, and if someone emails them they might do them a reasonable deal but swear them to secrecy.)

[djadonis206]

try called Sample Offset, an automation envelope parameter under Envelopes - Clip in Clip View.

many Live users have been using it since it was introduced in Live 3. it works well.

you should try it some time.

Still seems like a lot of work when you can just drop your beat into

Recycle

turn the grid on, cut 'er up - export the slices, midi file and rex file

forever have that little folder with your slices, rex and midi file for use in most samplers and loop slicers

Seems like a lot of work but you haven't invited me to your crib to kick it and school a brother on how to make a jam either so...

[scientist]

i think the only legitimate gripe in all of this is bounce's reference to buggy software. i've been lucky with ableton in that its always been pretty dependable. but a paying user should not have to watch as his buggy software is replaced by a new version. but it could be worse...if live was made by native instruments!

and to everyone else....it looks like m-audio (and some elaborating alpha testers) spilled the beans that things are in the works for slicing capabilities in live. case closed.

[kabuki]

if you *need* a slicer to achieve what you want to do, you're in the wrong game.



.lm.

agreed.

Hmmmm.... don't some people say the same thing about using computers to make music instead of outborad gear?

To each their own (and I would LOVE to see a Phatmatic Pro type Slicer myself. SO much more you could do with one of those)

HMMM... isn't it about $200? I could buy PMP instead of the Sampler!

[AdamJay]

a paying user should not have to watch as his buggy software is replaced by a new version.

there currently is a live 5.2.1 bug fix in the works.
check the bugs & problems forum.

[djadonis206]

I personally don't use any kind of slicer at the moment so...

it'd just be nice to have one - my friends swear by Dr. Rex and the way they use it is pretty awesome - I don't need no Dr. Rex cause I got Ableton but never the more never the less...

it be nice - that's all Kyle, that's all

[scientist]

there currently is a live 5.2.1 bug fix in the works.
check the bugs & problems forum.

or the top of this one. live works fine for me, the point i was making is that bounce has a valid argument. (unlike all the slicer pro/con complainers, and whoever it was that started this thread...wink!).

[STRATEGY_510]

no doubt, mcconaghy.

lives arrange view is my favorite way to creatively edit. what i like so much about it is that i just grab a section, apple-e it, then move the start marker until i have the cut i want. then play with transpose and warp settings. when i'm done, apple j to consolidate. couldn't be easier.

.lm.

that post is rediculous L.M., couldn't be easier?... gimme a break, a slicer does exactly that ... makes that easier. I don't know whats goin on here, I know you know better man, i know you from other forums too and you know what you're doin musicaly wtf up with the slicer hatred? every single thing written about slicing up audio in Live i already know how to do and do it, including willyums tip and thats all fine and good but you guys know what a slicer is.

I wish you cats wouldn't bash Adam either, he's contributed alot to the forum since the day he got here and being rude doesnt help anything.

Adam C'mon man what's up with all of this, it's starting to get silly when you make deragatory comments about people who use slicers man, and you can use a slicer and still be rolling your own, you know better than that.
now if there is some reason why a slicer would mess things up in Live 6 then please give us some details cause you're on the inside now, but don't say slicers aren't useful, and that they wouldn't be a great addition to Lives tools, theres lots of great music made with the help of those slicers that i mentioned, music that you yourself love, and you know how to use those damn slicers anyway and what their benefits are, on top of that I know all the ableton cats like robert and everyone else have used slicers and probably still do I wish they would respond cause its gettin a little sad here.

slicers are dope audio editing tools that should be a part of any samplers 101 features list, slicing up audio and modifying those slices is something done thousands of times each day by artist across many many musical genres as well as those that fit no genre at all.
nobody is saying that Live 6 is not a worthy upgrade, most of us asking for the slicer since yesteryear are all paying to get live 6 regardless of the slicer or not, but this slicer hatred is bullshit, or bullocks, or whatever you say at whereever you're from

on one hand, the greatest beat chopper of all time (IMO), DJ Premier, did not have a beat slicer nor anything as advanced as beat-slicing in arrange view. He did it all with his ears and adjusting start stop points manually with no waveform view.

on the other hand, what if he didn't have the SP1200? What if he had to edit it all together manually with turntables by overdubbing? that would've been really hard..

What if razorblades were never invented? Those old tape loops would've been hard to do so well if you had to rip it by hand or use a butter knife.

I forgot what my point was.


Bring on the Live-Chopper (TM)!!!!!



STRATEGY