Why are Live users music mostly a bit weird??

[Alex Reynolds]

To introspective and vague

Your response or mine?

-Alex

yes

Any other cute, glib, freshman college one-liners you want to pass off, anything else that manages to dismiss thousands of years of creative effort with a tedious and unoriginal insight?

Finished your website yet, so that we can listen to your magnificent talent? Clearly you're a genius if you can pass off others effort so easily.

Looking forward to it,
Alex

[Guest]

[quote="Anonymous"]
Getting your point across to pontificating dickheads on an internet-based forum could also be considered art maybe as well.
quote]



that statement is pure art!

I understand the argument about certain schools of art being elitist, but in truth to me the whole point of these kinds of art is similar to the point of Zen - the futility of things - the useLESSness of art/life. There is no point, nor should there be. Yet at the same time it's completely packed with meaning. If you have ears and are prpared to listen, the universe is bursting at the seams with life and vibrance, capture a moment of it and it becomes your 'reflection' of it, or work of art.


Anything creative or reflective can be called art - whereas criticism is only destructive. But then you could also argue destruction/deconstrcuction is just as much part of it, and therefore also art. There are no constants, and the point of things like this is to get us "outside the box".

the 'split bag of rubbish isn't art' comment to me smacks of the same kind of ignorant wisdom a twit once said to me:'electronic music? huh, you just push a button and walk away!'

the point is every single piece of rubbish was chosen specifically to be part of the display, just like sounds/loops in a track, or just like the items in tracy's bed scene, that automatically makes it art because it becomes INTENTIONAL. That's the only real difference.

anyway, like alex said, good luck to them if they can find a way of getting paid for creativity.

[jamief]

Getting your point across to pontificating dickheads on an internet-based forum could also be considered art maybe as well.
quote]




the 'split bag of rubbish isn't art' comment to me smacks of the same kind of ignorant wisdom a twit once said to me:'electronic music? huh, you just push a button and walk away!'


anyway, like alex said, good luck to them if they can find a way of getting paid for creativity.

And you beeing in a higher place to view all of this commentary have the knowing to illuminate us on what is and what isnt acceptable human commentary.
Sounds like censhorship. Surely not from your lips - you who accepts it all ?

mmmm

[Guest]

AGAIN this brings me to teh question of why are most Live users music (THAT I HEAR) on the more self indulgent side.

Its an easy question avtually, and Im amazed that so many have difficulty being able to answer


Merry Xmas

maybe, if this is true it could have something to do with the fact that live is a SEQUENCER INSTRUMENT, meaning you have to learn to play it like any other instrument, and if you go by the old adage 'it takes 10 years to learn to play your instrument, and then 10 years to learn to play your instrument. By that reasoning live simply hasn't existed long enough for anyone to get to virtuoso level.......

I can do normal old sequencer type stuff with live just like other sequencers, but in terms of the full potential of playing it like an instrument i can see I'm still a long way off mastering it

and in response to the thread title, i think live users being considered a bit 'weird' is excellent news. It means it's being experimented with for experimentation's sake, which can only be a good thing.

.......Proud to be weird.

[jamief]

Your response or mine?

-Alex

yes

Any other cute, glib, freshman college one-liners you want to pass off, anything else that manages to dismiss thousands of years of creative effort with a tedious and unoriginal insight?

Finished your website yet, so that we can listen to your magnificent talent? Clearly you're a genius if you can pass off others effort so easily.

Looking forward to it,
Alex

Did it take you thousands of years to come up with your personal outlook on art ?
Are you endevouring to shore up your prespective by collectively banding thousands of years of art and individual perspectives - together in a neat package - the Alex Reynolds school of thought that you believe many adhear to-
Is this not delusory to believe that thousands of years worth of individual effort and human inspiration and as the liptmus test for your own philoshical take on the ' World Of ART ". mmmmm

The bin bag and the bed is still shite.

Er i dont build websites - so no

Perhaps i a m a genious - perhaps not but i do know what i like

[Alex Reynolds]

Perhaps i a m a genious - perhaps not but i do know what i like

I, too, know what I like and dislike. The difference is that I can stand back and say that its okay if I don't like something, and that not liking something doesn't necessarily mean it is either good or bad.

Another difference is that I can offer a little more reflective criticism than your vague, childish "emperor's clothes" nonsense. As a freelance writer, unlike you I actually have to think before I put words and ideas together.

If that makes me the acting Dean of the Alex Reynolds' School of Artistic Thought, then I'm putting you on my school's Double Secret Probation list until you stop behaving like a baby.

-Alex

[jamief]

Perhaps i a m a genious - perhaps not but i do know what i like

I, too, know what I like and dislike. The difference is that I can stand back and say that its okay if I don't like something, and that not liking something doesn't necessarily mean it is either good or bad.

Another difference is that I can offer a little more reflective criticism than your vague, childish "emperor's clothes" nonsense. As a freelance writer, unlike you I actually have to think before I put words and ideas together.

If that makes me the acting Dean of the Alex Reynolds' School of Artistic Thought, then I'm putting you on my school's Double Secret Probation list until you stop behaving like a baby.

-Alex

lol
nice one
Children do have the better take on the world on a number of occasions - not always mind - but just sometimes they are able to keep it that bit more simple and not overimbue a subject with ' the emperors new clothes ' . An Ancient fable passed down hundreds if not thousands of years.

Your not the all seeing eye youd like to be on this subject Alex -
Your prickly reponses foretell of an underlying defensiveness- maybe you are not so sure that your personal perceptives carry any real tangible merrit when it comes under closer scrutiny .

Just grown up debate not personal

[Alex Reynolds]

Your not the all seeing eye youd like to be on this subject Alex

Nor you, apparently, if "emperor's new clothes" is all you can come up with. Try opening your mind a little.

-Alex

[jamief]

Your not the all seeing eye youd like to be on this subject Alex

Nor you, apparently, if "emperor's new clothes" is all you can come up with. Try opening your mind a little.

-Alex

hey man ,
i never preported to be. i believe my mind to be very open. But i,m not easily duped.

Anyway this isnt a personal critic of each other.

I think the term " emperors new clothes' works very well.
This sort of occurence obviuosly happend before in soceities of the past and ' the emperors new clothes' fable has survived to this day for a very good reason - don't be duped !

As chuck d sang - Dont believe the hype

[Guest]

Getting your point across to pontificating dickheads on an internet-based forum could also be considered art maybe as well.
quote]




the 'split bag of rubbish isn't art' comment to me smacks of the same kind of ignorant wisdom a twit once said to me:'electronic music? huh, you just push a button and walk away!'


anyway, like alex said, good luck to them if they can find a way of getting paid for creativity.

And you beeing in a higher place to view all of this commentary have the knowing to illuminate us on what is and what isnt acceptable human commentary.
Sounds like censhorship. Surely not from your lips - you who accepts it all ?

mmmm

typical sarcastic jock, just like my mum whos from glasgow, abrasive lot who are always looking for a fight. That's why I moved out of home!

I would have thought dismissing something as crap without really bothering to try and understand the point was more like censorship???

After all the discussion was about trying to draw parallels between the music and art worlds, which is an interesting discussion worth having, but just rubbishing things turns it into a slag fest. Chill out man, we're just a bunch of bored twats whiling away the hours at work trying to have an interesting discussion.

[jamief]

And you beeing in a higher place to view all of this commentary have the knowing to illuminate us on what is and what isnt acceptable human commentary.
Sounds like censhorship. Surely not from your lips - you who accepts it all ?

mmmm

typical sarcastic jock, just like my mum whos from glasgow, abrasive lot who are always looking for a fight. That's why I moved out of home!

I would have thought dismissing something as crap without really bothering to try and understand the point was more like censorship???

After all the discussion was about trying to draw parallels between the music and art worlds, which is an interesting discussion worth having, but just rubbishing things turns it into a slag fest. Chill out man, we're just a bunch of bored twats whiling away the hours at work trying to have an interesting discussion.

i,m not Scottish.

Its not censorship if decide i think its crap. Thats personal choice ! lol
you chill out your obviously a bit techy- relax bit foggy headed there

nothing personal

[Guest]

i,m not Scottish.

Its not censorship if decide i think its crap. Thats personal choice ! lol
you chill out your obviously a bit techy- relax bit foggy headed there

nothing personal

it was a wind up anyway, but as you're not actually scottish you aint gonna take the bait

[nosuch]

Seriously, all I seem to hear are users who write weird experimental stuff. Nothing wrong with that and I like experimental, but hell it would be nice to hear someone actually write a normal song like a Chemical Brothers, underworld, BT Crystal Method. fatboyslim, moby etc.

The guy Dave hill that has written the new Live book also does weird music and its not very good to be honest. I mean I could easily do what hes doing. His music is again experimental. So if the guy that wrote the book on Live is doing basic experimental stuff then who is doing real songs with real arrangements (I dont mean unknown dudes) not that I had heard of Dave Hill anyway come to think of it

When I compose in Live I can only get so far and then I hit a stumbling block of some sorts. I dont know what it is, but it only happens in live. i simply cant get a track properly finished with all the nuances thats needed at times. A track is always missing that extra 10% which is definitely the most important

The really great thing about live is the speed in which I can get ideas. In half an hour I nearly have all the elements I need to arrange the song, but then I hit that stumbling block.,.,Something is missing!! I CANT GET THEH SONG FINISHED

If I wrote experimental music, I know I could finish them because theres not much to it at all.

If I played in a band with real instruments I could happily finish a track.. I know I could.

So, is live really aimed at experimentalists

maybe a deadline could help you to get your song finished.
as live gives you the ability to put all your material in session and combine in in a new way everytime you launch it that may be the reason why you have a feeling of never have something finished. I often save two files - one for performance and trying, the other for editing finishing and getting a rendered result...

OTAH: what is a normal song?

there is so many music labeled "experimental" which (to me) isn't experimental at all - just copying experiments other people made before. extensive use of delay effects and loops is not "experimental" in the 21st century IMO.
just my 2 cents....

[nosuch]

On the other hand a George Martin plugin for inspiration must have been quite useful.

yeah that's it. a george martin plugin is crucial for the 10 %. no joke.
I can't understand why everybody tries to do everything by himself. the producer is there to keep a (more or less) objective view on a musical project, the engineer is there to record and master the music the best way, a designer will make better covers than most musicians etc.
neither live nor logic, cubase PT have a george martin plugin so far. but they are like the 4 tracks the beatles used - tolls that may provide new prospects to the creative mind.

I posted my first answer before actually reading more of the threat. now I did read a bit more. and I have a question to guest aka the master aka sarcastic aka ????
what is all that bullying for?
why do you insult other musicians?

what for?

[dpel]

[quote="The Master (sarcasm!)"]

Ok the difference between you and me is that Im a songwriter and your a jingle writer. While you dabble in some rock, electronica, funk, or whatever else your next radio add needs you are excel at none of them. If you could you wouldnt be doing what you do now (I guarantee it).

--nonsence, i'm happy doing ad work (t.v. not radio) i've had my fair share of the record business (enough to know that it's a pretty frustrating,
cut throat, mostly dead end road these days). i can dpend on a whole lot more with ad work.

Im thinking you havent had great success in teh ad/soundtrack world yet?

you're thinking wrong. how presumptuous of you.

Eh? I dont think you have understood either my post or the original posters at all. I dont use any software or to realize my musical endeavors. That comes from deep within, and I suspect somwhere that doesnt exist within you. . Until you understand the original post Im afraid you will be stuck in Limboland for all eternity.


and agian, you suspect incorrectly...
you obviously didn't have your thoughts quite in order before you started this flame war. otherwise there wouldn't have been much negative reaction. your presumptions are un-appreciated to say the least.




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