Live IS a slicer

dazzer · Post by **dazzer** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:19 am

@ djshiva

I seem to often be in agreement with you, both politically and your general way of posting and responding on the forum.

However, this thread was started by your friend, cheesy sig n all, and people have responded. Should your friend have started the thread? Why not, he's a knowledgable user of Live and a music biz pro. Should people have responded? Why not, that's what these threads are for.

Can people not get worked up about music without being told there are other more important things in the world? C'mon, stop insulting people's intelligence. At the end of the day, most everybody knows that all this ranting about Live aint really important in the global scheme of things. No need to slap your forehead, it's the Ableton Live forum after all...

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:40 am

forge check out these links to see what a slicer can do:

http://www.samples4.com/catalog/product ... cts_id/722

http://www.livelab.dk/liveslice.php

i can see by your post that you don't need these features but alot of folks use slicers like this to a great extent.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:51 am

again, i think this is all about being annoyed at a bunch of people complaining about something that most of us haven't even used yet.

some people have their little pet feature wishes that they think are the most important thing ever.

other people like to get the most milage out of what they have, and if they don't like the features in the update, wont buy it.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:00 am

stale bread wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:no doubt, mcconaghy.

lives arrange view is my favorite way to creatively edit. what i like so much about it is that i just grab a section, apple-e it, then move the start marker until i have the cut i want. then play with transpose and warp settings. when i'm done, apple j to consolidate. couldn't be easier.

.lm.

that post is rediculous L.M., couldn't be easier?... gimme a break, a slicer does exactly that ... makes that easier. I don't know whats goin on here, I know you know better man, i know you from other forums too and you know what you're doin musicaly wtf up with the slicer hatred? every single thing written about slicing up audio in Live i already know how to do and do it, including willyums tip and thats all fine and good but you guys know what a slicer is.

i'm not hating, it's perfectly fine to want a slicer style effect in live.

i just don't feel live needs one, and i don't think that not including one in live 6 is a big deal.

not sure how you know me from other forums, cause this is the only forum i participate in. well, other than a poker forum or two.

it's fun that people call me and others fascists, fanboys, assholes or whatever. Frankly i don't care what the fuck people think. I'm here expressing my opinion just like everybody else. I'm not trying to be popular.

.lm.

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:07 am

jackmazzotti wrote:ok here is why an auto-slicer would be great

and why live is a auto-slicer is nonsense

automatically chop up your loops (into as small as your zoom settintg is) (whether they are drums or melodies or harmonies or whatever)
rearange in arrange window
pretty soon you will have many usefull variations of your original loop

(add in scramble slices within loop bracket and away you go!)

yes that can be done manually but speed is key and helps further the creative flow tremendously

the creative use for a feature like this are HUGE!

bigger than you can think of currently

all of that sounds to me like what sample offset does

but anyway, it's obviously not an issue for me so I'll bow out of the conversation and take your words for it

I guess I can see now that we have a multi-sampler that it could be cool to have an option "slice accross keys" or similar

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:31 am

leisurmuffin, aren't you the same that post on em411.?/
if not then it was somewhere else, maybe sonicstate, reasonstation, or kvr, i dunno, any way

its clear by your post and forges that you guys are talking about an effect

we are not!!! we are talking about an editing feature, doesn't even have to be its own instrument could be simply added to the 'sampler'

i said it before , this is not a glitch effect, its not a suppatrigga type thang, it's an audio editing feature.

one more thing LM, i haven't been rude to you and one more on top of that, you say people are complaining, but its you guys complaining about us wanting a slicer, why would you, or should you shoot down anybodys request for a tool............ you don't have to use it if you don't want to and if you're not interested then why even post

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:38 am

i think there were a few posts about me as a live performer by some folks i know on em411, but no, this is the only music forum i actually participate in.

i do know what a slicer is, and like i've said a few times, i even use recycle every once in a while.

i wouldn't shoot down anybody's request, (i might not be as interested in a request, tho) but i get annoyed by the posts that are "bitch about what ableton has done/not done in 6" posts, not request posts.

.lm.

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:54 am

dazzer wrote:@ djshiva

I seem to often be in agreement with you, both politically and your general way of posting and responding on the forum.

However, this thread was started by your friend, cheesy sig n all, and people have responded. Should your friend have started the thread? Why not, he's a knowledgable user of Live and a music biz pro. Should people have responded? Why not, that's what these threads are for.

Can people not get worked up about music without being told there are other more important things in the world? C'mon, stop insulting people's intelligence. At the end of the day, most everybody knows that all this ranting about Live aint really important in the global scheme of things. No need to slap your forehead, it's the Ableton Live forum after all...

i definitely think that there is validity in wanting things that we perceive as a useful addition to how we make music. in all honesty, i can see what people are asking for and why (although i still say...if recycle and fruity slicer work so well for people, why not just keep using them?)

what really set me off was the constant (what i perceived as) GRIPING about what got added and what didn't. people were acting like because ableton has been fairly responsive to their users' wishlists, that all of a sudden those who had added to those wishlists were ENTITLED to get everything they wanted. and when they didn't get it, some (not all) of the posters got really snipy about it.

"oh it would take 5 minutes to code."
"every instrument ableton makes should be free with upgrades."
"i wanted porn intermissions every ten minutes to pop up in a warpable window in session and arrangement view."

ok so that last one is an exaggeration to add humor to an otherwise boring post. but really. being bummed that a feature you really wanted is understandable. but there were some rather obvious jealousies (toward the alpha testers...and yes my friend is one of them and i get a little peeved when people start throwing shit at him) and some childishness on the part of the people complaining. and ya know, i guess i just had one of those days where i was sick of hearing people bitch. where to be honest, i felt really powerless about the death and destruction going on right now, while i sit here in air conditioned comfort playing on the internet. i'll be honest. it could have just been me going into overkill. i dunno.

at the end of the day there has been constructive criticism, and there has been spoiled, high expectation entitlement. and i guess i just wanted people to be constructive instead of tearing down.

people can say whatever the fuck they want here. i am not saying don't speak your mind. what i am saying is consider what comes out of it.

i shouldn't respond to ableton posts when i have been drinking. this will probably all look like garble in the morning.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:00 am

leisuremuffin wrote:i think there were a few posts about me as a live performer by some folks i know on em411, but no, this is the only music forum i actually participate in.

It may have been from the Rick Ruben look-a-like forum.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:55 am

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:00 am

who's jealous shiva ?

I cant find any traces of jealousy in any of the posts here.

its kind of amusing that criticism of ableton is being interpreted as jealousy of the alpha testers?!?....tho its not surprising

I dont want to alpha test, I want supster to alpha test. He'll be a 100 times better then at least one of the alpha testers. Thats not jealousy, thats an observation and a fact. (the alpha tester in question would probably agree - tho the remark is not intended as a slight against his character)

Hmmm...I'm trying to think what else might have been said to bring you to the conclusion people are saying what they're saying cos they're jealous...but I'm stumped.

i agree with your politics 100%, but joining this thread to spew guilt-inducing realities is like someone joining a political thread and insisting people stop discussing politics or reducing it to a cartoon anecdote.

sidownes · Post by **sidownes** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:37 am

just to stick my oar in, I can't see that sample offset does anything like I'd want from a slicer. Just as well I have Reason and Recycle.

It would be nice to have it all integrated into Live but hey!! I can't see it happening anytime soon, obviously not in version 6, and it seems to go against the Live philosophy of (generally) undestructive sample manipulation.

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:44 am

...unfortunately I haven't the time right now to read the eight pages on this discussion, but since I'm quite enthusiastic about the sample offset feature I'd like to add a few comments. Basically I think it's correct to compare the results of the sample-offset feature with the ones you can achieve with a slicer (...I've been using Recycle and Kontakt for years...). Only one exception comes to mind which is the fact that you're bound to the quantisation grid. This is due to the warp-markers which are neccessary for the sample-offset. In principle the concept is to be able to rearrange the single hits of a loop, which can be done pretty easy if you've carefully set a warp-marker at each hit. In fact, I wouldn't need a slicer if the following improvements could be made:

- the possibility to set up wark-markers similar to adding slices in a slicer, i.e. detecting the transients by a sensitivity slider (and deleting the unneccessary markers)

- the possibility to have a sample-offset value that's larger than just +/- eight 16ths (or is seven - I don't know right now). That way loops that are longer than one bar can be used.

- a better visibility. Once a new sample-offset value is entered an updated view of the loop's waveform should be visible in the ENVELOPE (!) view.

This is a picture about this concept from an old thread of mine in the wishlist forum:

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... set5fi.jpg

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:09 pm

jackmazzotti wrote:ok here is why an auto-slicer would be great

and why live is a auto-slicer is nonsense

automatically chop up your loops (into as small as your zoom settintg is) (whether they are drums or melodies or harmonies or whatever)
rearange in arrange window
pretty soon you will have many usefull variations of your original loop

See, I think this is easier to do by hand. Sometimes you want to dig out a section of maybe two beats; if you do it by hand, no problem, in a slicer it's a bit more... and sometimes you want only half a drum hit. Unless you're triggering your samples in gate mode with MIDI (GAH!!!), then that's a bit stupid as well.

Or maybe it's just habit.

Anyways, if you want a slicer, write up some suggestion for an implementation. Where would I click to do what? Get gritty, we might see some sense in it.

jackmazzotti · Post by **jackmazzotti** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:47 pm

D K wrote:BUT this forum isn't about politics(or should i say isn't intended for politics)
it's about live and it's functions.
i'd rather hear about live, thanks.
i'll be in israel soon enough.

this is coming from the guy who calls me a fool for voting for bush