Alright, I'm with you. Bring on the MIDI sequencing...

[Guest]

I was all for not having midi in Live. I thought I woul dnever need it. However I am now beiggining Live a lot more as an app on its own...... But today I needed to sequence up a fast apprregio line.

I had no option but to fire up Logic, set it all up etc etc just to play and record one synth line.

after that the moment was killed.

I see now Live cannot be used as a self contained DAW as it is . I dont need complicated Logic style midi.

I also think with the name Live ableton may have caused some unwanted confusion. I like using live in teh studio. I know many use it Live, but many use it in teh studio and I think those that dont want midi should consider it.

[Guest]

Hmmm, perhaps you should consider what Live is? What is it programmed for?
i hope that Ableton keeps their concept - because this is the strength of Live, that it has a straight forward concepts which makes using it easy. If this concept includes VSTis ok, if not, I do no want to see them.

Of course a company should listen to their costumers, but this just pointless. Why - because there are hundreds crying around - some want MIDI editing, some MIDI playback, some only VSTi-hosting? And the story always goes on with people asking for more. (Ohhh, you can say it a thousands times that you really only want this rudimentary implementation - do people believe what they say? Are they really sure what they want? Of course I would love implementation of MIDI, SurroundSound, Control Surfaces, oh, Ableton could just develop their own that fits our needs best, AU and DX support - oh yes and video, really important, and with video of course their is the need for 3D, 3D editing, world class rendering in realtime - oh did I say video editing, real time video effects. Why I want this in Live - well the surface of Live is so great and intuitive - I want to use it for everything.)
If I look to the point what hack it seems to be to make VSTis work I would like to see the time of the programmers invested in enhancements of the actual concept.

perhaps we should use live for that what it is programmed for - make music! You need MIDI - but not a sequencer - get MAX/MSP - you can configure everything like you want!

Make music!

[Guest]

Hmmm, perhaps you should consider what Live is? What is it programmed for?


perhaps we should use live for that what it is programmed for - make music! You need MIDI - but not a sequencer -

Make music!

EH? what planet are you from dude. Your whole post was a catastrophe of contradictions.

Live=Loop Playing and I bet 90% of the users of Live cant play a damn thing so therefor use Loops that MUSICIANS CREATED WITH MIDI, or LIVE INSTRUMENTS. How many Live users can play an Instrument...Hmmmmmm 5%.if that!

If Ableton dont add midi then someone else will in their own Live app. Its a foregone conclusion dude.

And anyway, all this talk of no midi is simply from folks that are not musicians and can barely operate any of the DAWs out there. And where are all these people using Live on stage?????????? (I mean non famous people) I havenet seen a single one and I go and watch many electronic bands known and unknown. I do know of people who use it in their studios.

Simple
Live Studio Version...........OH and I guarantee it would outsell Live (in its current state) by 2-1 and they can charge an extra $100 for it.

As for Video, 3d this and that, get real dude. Thats simply scare mongering tactics your using there.

And NEVER, have I seen so many people against an ESSENTIAL development............and YES I have to wonder why (The real reason)

If you guys dont want Midi.THEN DONT USE MIDI....Erm isnt that a pretty easy concept

[Guest]

Great "dude" quota in that post there. Dude. Nice line in "I'm right, you're all wrong" patronising too. So, continuing with that tone here's a little tip for you. Dude. Try taking onboard other peoples ideas, wants and/or visions and pitching your views in a way that adds to the debate rather than thinking that you know exactly what the world needs while sitting on your backside assumung your sum total of music construction knowledge is the only one. Try looking behind the veneer of "why" some people suggest the things they have, it could be that they are based on something as abstract as keeping live in the ballpark of doing things in an overall more creative way than you can already do in virtually the same way with most MIDI based apps already?

[Guest]

Great "dude" quota in that post there. Dude. Nice line in "I'm right, you're all wrong" patronising too. So, continuing with that tone here's a little tip for you. Dude. Try taking onboard other peoples ideas, wants and/or visions and pitching your views in a way that adds to the debate rather than thinking that you know exactly what the world needs while sitting on your backside assumung your sum total of music construction knowledge is the only one. Try looking behind the veneer of "why" some people suggest the things they have, it could be that they are based on something as abstract as keeping live in the ballpark of doing things in an overall more creative way than you can already do in virtually the same way with most MIDI based apps already?

HA HA HA

Dooooood! Are you serious. Perhaps when you can gain an intermediate grasp of the english language you might be worth debating the issue over.

Its so tiring having to dumb down responses to pea brains like you.

Hey, no hard feelings. Im SURE your a nice guy

Ha Ha Ha Dude Indeeed!

Ha h aha

[Guest]

![/quote]
If you guys dont want Midi.THEN DONT USE MIDI....Erm isnt that a pretty easy concept [/quote]


Agreed
The concept of Choice is obviously alien to many on this thread.

[Guest]

Perhaps when you can gain an intermediate grasp of the english language you might be worth debating the issue over.

That should be something more like... "Perhaps when you gain an intermediate grasp of the english language it may be worth debating the issue over with you."

Hey, no hard feelings. Im SURE your a nice guy

That on the other hand should be "Im SURE you're a nice guy". It's to denote the joining of the two words you and are. Your is when something is referenced as a possesing.

Oh and I am. Have a nice xmas Einstein.

[Guest]

Perhaps when you can gain an intermediate grasp of the english language you might be worth debating the issue over.

That should be something more like... "Perhaps when you gain an intermediate grasp of the english language it may be worth debating the issue over with you."

Hey, no hard feelings. Im SURE your a nice guy

That on the other hand should be "Im SURE you're a nice guy". It's to denote the joining of the two words you and are. Your is when something is referenced as a possesing.

Oh and I am. Have a nice xmas Einstein.

HA ha ha

GOTCHA! Dooood

Did you know that the critique of punctuation spelling and grammar are the lowest form of flaming known to man.

I mean doooood

At

Least

Try

And


Be


Original




Merry Xmas

[Guest]

Anyway, back on topic...

Most of the posts here actually DON'T say NO to MIDI. They mainly differ on it's implmentation within Live. Some would like the philosophy of what it does now carried forward with interesting ways of clipping MIDI data (hell it seems to work for audio) with clocking/envelope control etc. Others would like to bring it into the same arena already covered by most DAW's available, ie: Track-based MIDI, full editing, etc.

Very few have actually voiced a NO to MIDI when you look back over the thread. Being able to trigger VSTi's has been a common "want" while others would like to keep it purely triggering external kit.

Thank you for the lesson in English grammar though.

[Guest]

>>EH? what planet are you from dude. Your whole post was a catastrophe of contradictions.
>>

At least I am not from a place where you call others 'dude' and think because of that you are cool!

>>And anyway, all this talk of no midi is simply from folks that are not musicians and can barely operate any of the DAWs out there.>>

Well, fine - when you are clever enough to use operate the DAWs out there - you have plenty of choices for adding MIDI.
This is exactly the reason why I do not need MIDI inside Live - because I can press keys and I can operate the other DAWs somehow.

If you want to explain me the world - you has told you that there is only your version of it? It is ok to suggest your ideas and to to it in a passionated way - but arrogance is different!

best

[gary adams]

personally I dont care if Live ever has midi. I just wanted to say that I remember the exact same argument before Pro tools had midi implementation. I dont recall users leaving in droves because midi was added.

My 0.002c

[claudek]

Internal midi & VST only..
No external midi..to VSTi's and maybe some cool step sequencers from
Live..like Reasons' Matrix style but better..

[TAkTiC]

well i can clearly see that many people in this thread have not played live electronic music but are using live for something else entierly. personaly i have played live about 6 times the last year (2003) and i have just now begun to play with ableton live in the studio since my friend got it. So i may not know enough about live to voice my opinion but ill do it anyway.
these are my previous set ups live
1.
RM1X sequenser
Nordrack2 Synth
YamahaA5000 Sampler+efx
Redsound bpm federation efx
Mackie CR1604
A compressor (think it was a dbx 166 or something similar)
Styles played during set
(ebm psy trance techno hardstyle)

2.all of the above plus laptop running reaktor (6pack ensemble+small DSQ32 style seq controlling a junatic+graindelay)
Styles played during set
(progressive trance swedish style)

3.Just my laptop plus nordrack(used as a controller only) running Traktor
Disclamer (some would call this cheating but i dont since some edm is impossible or just plain pointless to play live) why did i not use a dual cd player and a mixer instead? well since i am actually not that good at it and we had no money to rent one plus i already had the computer
Styles played during set
(psytrance chill)

4. Just my laptop running Reaktor plus a nordrack2 as a controller
(using 6pac only)
Styles played during set
Techno(schranz)
Disclamer
Well why did i just write all of my live setups to give u an insight into what i have tried so u know what the hell i am talking about

As u can tell i play various styles of edm when i play live and no i cant play any instrument (well i can play piano and bass but not that good).
My experience with these different setups are these
1. Nearly all the styles of music i make demand some form of continous tweaking of the synth sound (cutoff resonans envelopes fm etc) these are not loopable as a audio loops since the loop would be nearly as long as the entire song leaving no room to improvise making the whole "live" thing pointless

2. Having an all hardware setup is a serious pain in the ass and not that fun (having to stop between tracks sometimes when to many of the patches needs repclacements). it also takes a lot of preparation to pull an all hardware set of (for me at least a month but i am also a student so i dont work with music full time)

3. I need midi in all of them and since i like my nordrack2 so much and since i like my Reaktor (VST) so much i need some way of playing midi clips before i can take ableton live up on stage (i will try to sync ableton to my RM1X if that works well then i will be in heaven)

so i say in with the midi and look at how the RM1X handles midi (wich BTW is what i think they did in the first place when they designed live)
and no i dont really nead in deapth editing of midi since i make all my songs in cubase sx and on the RM1X

Disclamer i am from sweden so i know that my english is lousy but feel free to correct my spelling if u so wish

[Guest]

Your English grammar is a heck of a lot better than mosy who post who have it as their native lnguage. Myself included a lot of the time.

Good post and I personally agree with your yake on what would be a good next step for Live. Expand on what is already there using a similar working method.

Something similar to Touch Tracks found, and often missed, in Logic would fit what you are asking for to a tee.

[Guest]

Your English grammar is a heck of a lot better than mosy who post who have it as their native lnguage. .

thought for the day....

did you know it's estimated within 10 years it's estimated native english speakers will be outnumbered by 2nd language english speakers by 2 to 1, and while it was the brits that started it off, then the americans who made it omnipresent, for the majority but in the near future, mainly down to ease of communication/business and internet - (such as this forum) the resulting main world language will be a hybrid called 'world english'

think about it, if out numbered 2 to 1 the native english speakers wont be able to regulate it so it will evolve into a new international language (i guess like latin evolved into french,spanish and italian and german/french into english.......