[OT] - Making money

[ConsciousPilot]

this was a great post. it really explains how i feel in alot of area's.
im tired of doing jobs that i cant stand. on my way to work today i was thinking " i cant do this for the wrest of my life". my only drive is music. i was trying to think of some sort of jobs that i would like but, there is nothing. the only thing that makes me really enjoy myself is music... and i dont want to do anything else.

Go for it then. You only get one shot at life (unless you believe in reincarnation...)

If it's your passion, you're good at it, and there's a market for your talent and skills, you'll excel, and have a great time doing it.

I personally couldn't stand doing the mundane, brain-dead 9-5 assembly-line/office-worker/2.4-children-and-SUV-and-surburan-house lifestyle thing. I'd rather put a f*cking bullet in my head.

I love the way you describe corporate life. I couldn't sum it up more eloquently!

BTW hambone, I also go on VJforums After reading one of your posts I rewired up Arkaos to Ableton and have been having a blast on my projector! All I need is a v4 now so I can mix that in with resolume...

[hambone1]

Cool! You can do some wicked stuff using Live to control your video and audio (and lighting!) at the same time. That same 32-beat filter sweep can sweep a video effect and a laser at the same time... scratching the audio with a fader scratches the video and pans and tilts scanners at the same time... a buildup can end in a massive nuclear explosion on the screens and blinders firing... everything always in sync and beatmatched. So many ideas, and not enough time!

IMO, assuming the audio and video are quality, those that incorporate visuals into their live act have a huge advantage over those who don't. Who wants to watch someone "playing" a laptop?

It's a 21st-century multimedia world...

[ConsciousPilot]

Cool! You can do some wicked stuff using Live to control your video and audio (and lighting!) at the same time. That same 32-beat filter sweep can sweep a video effect and a laser at the same time... scratching the audio with a fader scratches the video and pans and tilts scanners at the same time... so many ideas, and not enough time!

IMO, assuming the audio and video are quality, those that incorporate visuals into their live act have a huge advantage over those who don't. Who wants to watch someone "playing" a laptop?

It's a 21st-century multimedia world...

Definately...I have just jumped into the VJ world just as you have although I'm much earlier on the timeline as you are. My roommate and I started a group called Electric Enlightenment (www.electric-enlightenment.com). We have already played out a couple of gigs (just for free, for fun and exposure) and were SUPRISED by the amount of positive feedback. In California (where you would expect there to be alot), there is almost nilch competition when it comes to VJing.

I work at a university 5 days a week, not quite 40 hours but close - because I can't stand waking up at 8 AM. I want to just do audio/visual stuff for the rest of my life, I LOVE VJing and DJing and everything inbetween!

I haven't wrapped my head around DMX lighting and lasers yet (namely, because I have none to practice on). I can just imagine a 32 bar filter sweep moving a laser...that must be amazing. Where are you from hambone? I would love to see a show that you put on!

When I was starting with resolume, I loved how you could fluidly mix layers like a DJ would, but when it came to triggering clips it lacked the ability to time-synch to music. Then I discovered, thanks to you, arkaos & ableton live...I'm really hoping that ableton 6 quicktime video support will be good enough that I can ditch arkaos and just trigger clips straight from ableton live, then use a v4 perhaps to do effects with it (right now, I'm using a VGA switch to choose between resolume or Arkaos, but it's so limited, no crossfading etc)

[hambone1]

Live 6 video support isn't really intended as a VJ solution. AFAIK, it's primarily intended for those who want to create and sync their music to existing video.

You've got MUCH more flexibility using Live to control your VJ app. The same Live MIDI clips that you use for audio can be used for video, too. I have a library of MIDI sequences and CC curves that control Arkaos clip-firing and effects. Throw in virtual MIDI and Follow Actions, and you can do some total craziness. And it's always in sync and beatmatched, irrespective of tempo.

I would think that using two VJ apps would get confusing. Arkaos 3.6 is imminent, and 4 is on the horizon with Universal Binary support. I think Arkaos works particularly well because of the music keyboard analogy.

[ConsciousPilot]

Live 6 video support isn't really intended as a VJ solution. AFAIK, it's primarily intended for those who want to create and sync their music to existing video.

You've got MUCH more flexibility using Live to control your VJ app. The same Live MIDI clips that you use for audio can be used for video, too. I have a library of MIDI sequences and CC curves that control Arkaos clip-firing and effects. Throw in virtual MIDI and Follow Actions, and you can do some total craziness. And it's always in sync and beatmatched, irrespective of tempo.

I would think that using two VJ apps would get confusing. Arkaos 3.6 is imminent, and 4 is on the horizon with Universal Binary support. I think Arkaos works particularly well because of the music keyboard analogy.

I know this is a bit O/T in this thread, but here is my question about syncing up video clips with ableton - the reason I was excited was because you could warp video (supposedly to match the tempo, if I understood correctly). For example, is there a way in ableton lets say the BPM is 130, and when I trigger the clip through arkaos it loops once in 1 130 BPM bar. If I change the BPM to 140, is there a way to still make it sync up - i.e. play the video slower so it still stays on time? I haven't figured out how to do this yet.

Thanks for all your help hambone

[hambone1]

You won't be able to warp video in 6. You will, however, be able to warp your audio to sync to video.

You control playback speed in Arkaos by mapping a CC to the Movie Speed Controller. Arkaos will then slow down or speed up the video frame rate to maintain sync. Mapping a CC knob to the Movie Position Controller will allow you to scratch video. Map the same knob to a Live effect, and scratch and work the effect at the same time!

I do all of my animations and graphics at 120bpm and 24fps, as it's easier to animate that way. One beat is half a second and 12 frames, etc.

When I launch a Live scene, there's a CC column to scale the playback speed to match Live's tempo. Because of the limited resolution of MIDI, it only works on tempos with multiples of 5. You need to send the playback scaling speed to Arkaos as a CC number, as Arkaos won't track Live's tempo. I've got the CC values on a spreadsheet somewhere. I'll dig em out for you.

All video stays in perfect sync with Live this way. You only have to do your graphics once at 120bpm, and they'll work with any tempo multiple of 5. You can use a non-multiple of 5 tempo, but the video will eventually drift out of sync.

[ConsciousPilot]

Awesome! I knew there was something I was missing. I'd really appreciate the CC spreadsheet if you can find it.

You rock hambone! I'll give it a try and let you know what I can come up with!

Just curious, what part of the world are you from Hambone?

[hambone1]

I'm American, but live in England now in a sleepy little marina town called Woodbridge, about 75 miles NE of London.

Here ya go. Live tempo, resulting Arkaos frame rate based on 120bpm/24fps original, and CC needed to send to Arkaos to keep the video in sync.

Tempo Frame Rate CC
80 21.33333333 16
85 22.66666667 17
90 24 18
95 25.33333333 19
100 26.66666667 20
105 28 21
110 29.33333333 22
115 30.66666667 23
120 32 24
125 33.33333333 25
130 34.66666667 26
135 36 27
140 37.33333333 28
145 38.66666667 29
150 40 30
155 41.33333333 31
160 42.66666667 32
165 44 33
170 45.33333333 34
175 46.66666667 35
180 48 36
185 49.33333333 37
190 50.66666667 38
195 52 39
200 53.33333333 40

So if your original video clip was done at 120bpm, and your Live track is 135bpm, send a CC of 36 to the Arkaos Speed Controller from Live when you launch the scene. Your video clip will be scaled by Arkaos to 27fps, and it will be perfectly in sync with the audio.

As you can see, as the CC can only be entered as an integer, it only works for tempo multiples of 5.

[illsub1]

hambone. Where do you get your content (video loops, etc...) and what quality is it i.e. size to length? Would youtube vids look super crappy? What kind of projector do you use? I have Arkaos but haven't used it yet (NFR from working at Scam Cash a while back)

All this really excites me. Have you messed with milkdrop with a line input plug in winamp? It's crazy if you set it up on Aux Sends (Like just a solo and nothing else triggering it. I think that the geometry combined with the audio frequencies and levels is treading a very sacred line. It can be very inspiring to communicate with the other levels of dimensionality!!!! Everyone has to try it. Kind of has the effect of Paul Lafolley's Thanaton III http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/e ... anaton.jpg , a painting which is a vehicle out of this dimension. Try it- put your fingers on the hands and look at the eye for a while----------------------

One more question. Could I feasibly run both on my Athlon 64 3000 lappy?

Thanks for helping!!
Jai Ma

[hambone1]

I make all my own video clips. I use Motion 2 (fantastic!), Cinema 4D, Poser 6, Flash, and my camcorder to make them. I do them all at 120bpm/24fps, 1024 x 768 (native resolution of the projectors), and compress them with H.264 (high quality to file size ratio). I use the technique described above to ensure that the clips are always in sync with Live's tempo.

I pipe the G-Force visualizer from an iBook into Arkaos in the G5. One of my favorite things to do is to mix visualizer graphics with beatmatched effects over the top of live dancefloor camera feed, and sync the lighting with the effects.

I use a pair of Optoma EP759 projectors and rear-project to a pair of 10' screens either side of the stage. I'm sending the same signal to both screens, but will split the screens when the new Arkaos is released.

Regarding youtube clips, your VJ output will never be better than your input. Youtube files are highly compressed and low resolution, so they're never going to work well.

As far running both on your laptop, I'm not sure. Try it. Some video effects, just like some Live softsynths and effects, are more CPU demanding than others. I use a lot of Apple's Core Image (not sure about the PC equivalent) and Arkaos' HW effects on video, as many of them draw virtually zero CPU.

[hambone1]

Just to revive this subject and get it back on topic...

Unfortunately, making money with your passion for music probably takes more than sitting in your bedroom making phatt beatz. Marketing, advertising, promotion, contracts and all of the other boring business stuff is essential, too. And that means leaving Live alone long enough to work on the other business essentials (which I'm doing now and hate!)

If you're happy making music as a hobby or just for fun, that's fantastic. But if you want to make some cash out of it, or if, like me, it's your sole source of income, it takes a little extra effort. It sucks, it's boring, and it's not the kind of thing creative people like to do, but IMO it's necessary.

Any tips or tricks out there on using Live to make a living?

[hoffman2k]

Yeah I can relate to this topic.
There's so many markets unexplored and so many obvious ideas not implemented.
And then there's the benefit on spending loads of time on 1 or more skills.

But in september it's back to school for me. Gonna brush up on the old business skills, learn a few tricks and try to have a good time.

There are so many projects i have in mind that are impossible to do if i work 9 to 5...
So there's only one option really...
Make the best out of it and make lots of friends.

It's either that or spend the rest of my life wondering where it all went wrong.

Screw that!

"When the going gets weird, the weird go pro"
- Hunter S. Thompson

[dallas!]

Contract work is good and bad.....

Had a lot of large projects that make bank over 3-6months, then nothing
for 3-6 months. Spending big then living on credit cards isn't the best. If
you're doing contract stuff u gotta be good with your money, save your
taxes etc.

-Ben

I actually contract for living (not in the audio industry)an this is so true, I had a nice 6mnth contract lined up from Jan, got half way through and the company ran out of Money, got paid an extra 2 weeks and then that was it.....didn't find another contract until nearly 3months later, but with the money I'd saved up I managed to survive AND put myself on a 2k IT course. As a ball park save at least 50% of what you earn, if you can 75%. Everytime you get your contract re-newed or move instantly from one contract to another then the money you've saved you can take as a bonus, but only then! To be honest I'd recommend contracting to everybody, I expect my earnings to rise from current to at least £350/day in a year hopefully £500/day in 3years, show me a real job that earns that kinda money and still gives you flexibility.

dallas!

[blakbeltjonez]

Contract work is good and bad.....

Had a lot of large projects that make bank over 3-6months, then nothing
for 3-6 months. Spending big then living on credit cards isn't the best. If
you're doing contract stuff u gotta be good with your money, save your
taxes etc.

-Ben

but that kind of feast or famine is very typical for just about any kind of production-related work, whether it be post, live sound, A/V, etc. unless you are employed by a company that pays a salary, or you can take jobs all over the country. it's good to have a Plan B for generating income so that when one source of work is dead, you can still make money. living in an area that has constant work is also a plus.

big spending is not recommended unless you can recoup your investment reasonably quickly. big spending for gratuitous self-indulgent reasons is definitely not recommended. and you always have to watch out for the next guy who comes along and is only too happy to do what you're doing, for half of what you charge. his work may suck compared to yours, but a lot of people can't tell the difference anyway.

[hambone1]

I feel much more in control of my career now that I work for myself. I'm no longer at the mercy of bosses, redundancy, office politics, and the 9-5 M-F gray existence that sucks the life out of you. I work my own hours, do what I want the rest of the time, and enjoy the flexibility and freedom.

When you work for yourself, you're the master of your own destiny. Sink or swim - it's all up to you. And having been self-employed in the past, but working for middlemen, I learned a valuable lesson. When you work for someone who works for someone else (who may even work for someone else), there's an additional tier of problems. If your client doesn't get paid, you often don't get paid. So I've decided to work directly for the end customer now. No middlemen. They're often just leeches who can't do the work themselves, anyway.

Another lesson I learned was to not give credit to customers. The biggest talkers are usually the biggest bullshitters, and sometimes the worst payers. I got burned for £3k from a customer, and when she couldn't pay, she gave me her Powerbook instead! I won't work for anyone without prepayment now. if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

Business is tough. But it can be really satisfying to work for yourself. If you succeed, it feels great. If you fail, you've usually got nobody to blame but yourself.