Live 6 review - part 1

[hoffman2k]

Nothing will change no matter which features you ask for.
Live 6 was already a totally worked out PLAN back in november 2005 AFAIK.

All thats left now is to make it work in real-life as it looks on paper.

The preset system is going in the right direction though.
I can already imagine some kind of functionality between the stored midi mappings and the project manager.
We're not miles away from getting this. It just wont be for the upcoming release i think.

Groove quantize is also something that is getting nearer to reality. And there's a perfectly good reason why it's taking so long (IMHO)... Ableton came up with a solution, realised it wasn't good enough and is now working on an even better solution.
You guys do want audio warpmarkers to be used as a layout of the midi grid right?
At least thats how i understand it....

I'm not saying that i really know WHAT they are up to. But i'm 100% sure that there is a better solution to groove quantize as you know it.
At least when we're talking about putting such a feature in Live. The midi editor could use more improvements besides just groove quantize.

[Angstrom]

Nothing will change no matter which features you ask for.
Live 6 was already a totally worked out PLAN back in november 2005 AFAIK.

so 9 months ago they said - "there's no way we can put cc record into session in 9 slender months". That must be one freakishly complex solution they have in mind if it cant be completed in 9 months (not to mention that they knew it was an issue during L5 development 12 months earlier).
Me, I would have just put a button in preferences marked "session clips:absolute controllers" - but thats obviously not brilliant enough.
I wait and see exactly how they implement this in Live 9

[leisuremuffin]

Just returned from a 2 week adventure far from any computer so excuse me if I've missed out on anything:

I assume there's still no groove template functionality?

not a peep about it - but joy of JOY there is VIDEO!! YEAH WHOOPEE
who needs intelligent groove quantize when you can import some jenna jameson to splork too instead of grooving!

AH! but did you see the post where robert mentions that because of video features there is now the ability to set an audio clip to master? This makes the warp markers in that clip work like a tempo map for the session.

I'll bet you can get some pretty crazy groove out of that.


i know, it ain't exactly whast you want, but i'm excited about it.





..lm..

[hoffman2k]

Nothing will change no matter which features you ask for.
Live 6 was already a totally worked out PLAN back in november 2005 AFAIK.

so 9 months ago they said - "there's no way we can put cc record into session in 9 slender months". That must be one freakishly complex solution they have in mind if it cant be completed in 9 months (not to mention that they knew it was an issue during L5 development 12 months earlier).
Me, I would have just put a button in preferences marked "session clips:absolute controllers" - but thats obviously not brilliant enough.
I wait and see exactly how they implement this in Live 9

Well. If you want to make 100% sure that they hear you loud enough before they start on Live 7, start a bigass thread about it (or bump old ones) as soon as this Live 5/6 thing isn't keeping them busy around the clock.

Seriously. On this whole midi thing: you wont get my point untill you see it for yourself.
I hardly know how to describe it all.
It all looks pretty basic on paper. You hardly even notice a thing in Live...
But you can obviously feel it getting better.

On the subject of CC recording: Ableton has never been very clear on this subject.
It's a glaring omission, but i don't think they're leaving it out just to piss people off.
I'm still not ruling this feature as impossible, because we still have no midi map to try out.
But in (my) theory, recording knob movements (Midi, not mouse) should be possible with macro's.
So you can expect a bigass bug report being sent out to get some answers about that.

At the moment it's a bit hard to get solid answers, because some Abe's are in the states AFAIK.

[hoffman2k]

Btw. my personal belief as to why this seems to complex is this:

Ableton has been busy implementing support for loads of different controllers all year around. (korg, m-audio, mackie, novation,.....)
That must have slowed the MIDI department down a lot.
Unlike video support and Sampler

It's probably simple (as you say) to make this work for 1 controller. But it must be a pain in the arse to do it for all (or most) of them.

[forge]

this morning I had a bit of a brainwave about how this session automation thing could be easily implemented - seems obviously simple so it's probably been mentioned before, but I was thinking about it and realised it would solve at least 3 major problems with Live in one go

I've just posted the big long outline I sent to Abe on the forum:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

[Shoden]

Hi ableton live 6 crew, ok I need to know if this was implemented for the version 6.

First of all, will the A/B crossfade settings will be able to be save and recall tru easy reaching button?? Having only one crossfade setting is totally stupid for live use where you need to change all the time the A/B setting of all your track.

Also, VERY important, will live 6 be able to load VST instruments AND vst plugins when being a slave in rewire mode. Its a shame that you cannot do it in ableton live 5. Your stuck with only ableton live as master but i need ableton as slave with vstis and vst with samplitude as master that i would use as a DAW.

This way i have the most powerfull setup on earth ehehhe

thx for awnsering
alex

I am not in the alpha, but I will say something, though it may be premature.

I just had a feeling. A feeling deep inside, oh no!

First, while the crossfader is a huge feature request for many people, I want to say that with the new multi-parameter to one controller functionality, crossfaders are going to be a thing of the past. Really, it may take a little more work to set up, but can you imagine the possibilities? two knobs, and you can control ten track volumes if you want, and each can be set to different ranges, or inverted. This is custom crossfading folks. Better than any adjustable crossfaders. Just open your mind.

Second. It is already established that for every feature request that we have made that is similar to pre-existing features in other DAWs, the Abes come to a very elegant, but slightly different, and often more useful, but again different enough to require us to think a little differently, solution.

We need to just wait for the beta, or for LIVE6. It is going to change a lot of how I work. I already know that. That is before Sampler, or the EIC, or whatever the soundset is.

my .02.
AB

Crossfade is usefull to crossfade between multiple track without changing the volume of all the tracks ( the main MIX). Multiple crossfade settings give multiple ways to the live performer to do tricks like cutting all but 3 tracks, putting an effect ON on the master at the same time and afterwards crossfade to B to have all track but the first 3. this way you can DJ mix progression. It is just not a little functionality ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO EVERYBODY THAT PLAY WITH THIS FEATURE LIVE!!

Second of all, THE WAY I wanna work with ableton is Ableton as slave for composing clip with VSTIs and effects and a sketpad of my track in the arrangement and I want to contruct the real track in a master DAW like samplitude/cubase/sonar. It would be connected as master to ableton so this way I would have only the audio tracks in the master DAW and Vstis in the slave composing software.

ANYway I just want to know if YES OR NO these feature will be there in the live 6 version. I Dont want commentary on how it would be usefull or not for somebody else

[dgkenney]

Second of all, THE WAY I wanna work with ableton is Ableton as slave for composing clip with VSTIs and effects and a sketpad of my track in the arrangement and I want to contruct the real track in a master DAW like samplitude/cubase/sonar. It would be connected as master to ableton so this way I would have only the audio tracks in the master DAW and Vstis in the slave composing software.

ANYway I just want to know if YES OR NO these feature will be there in the live 6 version. I Dont want commentary on how it would be usefull or not for somebody else

No


Dan

[KU]

AH! but did you see the post where robert mentions that because of video features there is now the ability to set an audio clip to master? This makes the warp markers in that clip work like a tempo map for the session.

I'll bet you can get some pretty crazy groove out of that...

that IS cool - totally cool ... that is a big deal and very important to me

is that in some NAMM video or something?

[Machinate]

Just returned from a 2 week adventure far from any computer so excuse me if I've missed out on anything:

I assume there's still no groove template functionality?

not a peep about it - but joy of JOY there is VIDEO!! YEAH WHOOPEE
who needs intelligent groove quantize when you can import some jenna jameson to splork too instead of grooving!

AH! but did you see the post where robert mentions that because of video features there is now the ability to set an audio clip to master? This makes the warp markers in that clip work like a tempo map for the session.

I'll bet you can get some pretty crazy groove out of that.

i know, it ain't exactly whast you want, but i'm excited about it.

This feature didn't exactly get me all that excited. But then I thought: This must be PRECISELY the kind of feature that rocks for groove templates. Then, being alpha-tester and all, I decided to test it out.

Results are in: It effin' rules!

(disclaimer: note that as an alpha all features are subject to change and so on)
Here are two recordings I did: Each contain a breakbeat, an impulse beat quantised to straight 16s and an Operator loop quantised to straight 16s.

The first one is notably "out of the pocket", since the breakbeat shuffles quite a bit. It's actually painful listening to the midi sequence of the drums over the break! (esp the first impulse snare hit - WAY OFF)
Out of the pocket!
The next one is a lot more like it: Note the cheap hihat pattern from the impulse really locking with the break. No midi notes have been moved!
in the pocket!

This is awesome, extremely useful, and way better than most groove template stuff I've seen - you can easily tweak or "massage" your groove throughout an entire song if you want to.

[forge]

hey - just thought I'd add to Machinate's post....

I just noticed we got the ability to set an audio clip as master in the latest alpha, right under the warp button you can now see "slave" and if you press it becomes master and the whole song fits to it!!!

NICE!

[mike holiday]

ok i just started reading on page 8 it's 1 am on sunday drinking since 4 so sorry


but on the subject of recording cc automation in session view

(wow that would be fun!!)

an electribe can do it and that is a far simpler machine then live

[forge]

ok i just started reading on page 8 it's 1 am on sunday drinking since 4 so sorry


but on the subject of recording cc automation in session view

(wow that would be fun!!)

an electribe can do it and that is a far simpler machine then live

Actually we had quite a long discussion about it with Abe - it is pretty close to top of the list

I was talking about maybe trying to do it by allowing midi in to come from your controller to the live remote midi map via a track so you can record it on the track

but this is not the ideal way to do it for a number of reasons BUT you can do this now with midi yoke - I tried it and got it working

of course all your recording is midi CC numbers, which means you cant see the names of the parameters and have to remember what is what - but it is a cool way to record automation straight into session clips

likewise you can trigger your clips from the keyboard and effectively record sequences as midi notes in midi clips and have loads of different songs recorded as clips on a session track - could work kind of like a pattern sequencer

[Angstrom]

ok i just started reading on page 8 it's 1 am on sunday drinking since 4 so sorry


but on the subject of recording cc automation in session view

(wow that would be fun!!)

an electribe can do it and that is a far simpler machine then live

Hi,
I started a thread on the topic over here
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=305015

Hoffman2k suggested it guvnor, it weren't me wot done it honest.

[mike holiday]

but this is not the ideal way to do it for a number of reasons BUT you can do this now with midi yoke - I tried it and got it working

no midi yoke for me

(osx)