Live 6 controller Question > Recording CC in Session?

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:18 am

Angstrom pointed me here

this is the 2nd time in a short bit so excuse myself for skipping a lot of the thread

i set out to read the whole post, got 2 pages and it was all a bit redundant at that point.

i dont use much 3rd party stuff..i have enuff hardware (2 much) and never looked outside of lives built in ensemble (i hated reason for its all-in-oneness, but embrace it in live HA)
the first time i released i wasnt recording cc automation into session clips(v3) , i freaked out..trouble shooted the whole kit and ka-buddle..only to realize that this wasnt doable.

if we could record automation cc via midi it would enhance lives ability to wander live

hic-cup

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:31 am

Angstrom wrote:ker - bump.

hoffman2k wrote:
Angstrom wrote: .... "session clips:absolute controllers" .....
Well. If you want to make 100% sure that they hear you loud enough before they start on Live 7, start a bigass thread about it (or bump old ones) as soon as this Live 5/6 thing isn't keeping them busy around the clock.

Seriously. On this whole midi thing: you wont get my point untill you see it for yourself.
I hardly know how to describe it all.
It all looks pretty basic on paper. You hardly even notice a thing in Live...
But you can obviously feel it getting better.

On the subject of CC recording: Ableton has never been very clear on this subject.
It's a glaring omission, but i don't think they're leaving it out just to piss people off.
I'm still not ruling this feature as impossible, because we still have no midi map to try out.
But in (my) theory, recording knob movements (Midi, not mouse) should be possible with macro's.
So you can expect a bigass bug report being sent out to get some answers about that.

At the moment it's a bit hard to get solid answers, because some Abe's are in the states AFAIK.

Yeah, we got some answers...
It's top priority, but there are many complications.
For us: it's just like "move knob, record movement"
For Ableton it's more a matter of getting it to co-exsist with the other features in Live.
One of the reasons for example is: Feedback routing needs to be handled by Live's delay compensation algorithm..
Which makes it more complex for them to implement. (Damn you PDC

)

Also, when it's implemented. It'll probably be a power user feature.
Because it might seriously mess up Live with all these remote control surface options, macro's, multiple mapping, arrangement recordings,.....

Long story short: It's one of the main features that will be worked on during Live 6. It's impossible to implement it at this (alpha) stage.
But you can be sure that this one is even on Ableton's personal wishlist for future features.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:07 am

Thanks for that Bjorn - I get the feeling our mewings in the wilderness are being heard . . . and shuffled towards the Action Item List.

Good to hear.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:36 am

OK,
a few questions because my brain is fried after working all weekend

"Feedback routing needs to be handled by Live's delay compensation algorithm"
I can't imagine the feedback loop.
In my mind a Session absolute clip would work like this - arrange record would copy absolute data into arrange clips , when arrange plays back session clips don't. When a change is made to the session clip and the 'back to arrange light' is lit up - the session clip plays. Currently with relative session there is interaction with arrangement absolute values - but in this case (session clip set to abs) there would only be the session clip data.
I cant see where delay compensation comes in there, as it actually seems simpler to me than the current system!

"It'll probably be a power user feature. Because it might seriously mess up Live with all these remote control surface options"
As far as I know the various controllers work a bit like this (I may be wrong) : Hardware sends midi data to live - Live applies routing template according to RemoteHardware selection - Live performs a little 'per track' juju .
I can't see the issue in there.

If a session clip is tagged as 'abs' then any incoming midi data should be absolutely assigned to its assignment, without refering to the baseline of arrangements values. It seems to me that regardless of where in the midi routing structure the control signal comes from if the clip is set to 'abs' (effectively 'ignore baseline') then the conflict isses are nominal.

I'm mainly perplexed at the reference to delay compensation though, I assume you dont mean PDC, but rather latency compensation. Still I don't see how this figures any more than it does at the moment.

Once again - in my understanding of an Abs Session Clip - incoming midi data arrives (cc127 value 056) the track writes that data to the clip, the clip is set to abs, the track routes cc127 directly to its mapped parameter without refering to anything else. If a rack or macro is involved the track 'filters' CC127 through that macro before absolutely applying it to teh assigned control.

Upon recording to arrange the abs values contained in the session clip are simply recorded over to an arrange clip.

I must be missing something large and obvious.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:46 am

Angstrom. I wont pretend that I understand it any better then you do.
Thats the best answer we can get out of Ableton. They are working on it. It just wont be for Live 6.0.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:53 am

cool, thanks for trying anyway.

hopefully my noisemaking will make them put it high on the list for L7

I'll bump this thread once every couple of months just so they don't think I have forgotten.

You know, Ableton guys, if you ever look out of your window and there is a man standing out there that looks like Ming the Merciless but he is wearing a t-shirt that says "CC absolute in session!"

you know who it is!
watching, waiting!

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:03 pm

Angstrom wrote: You know, Ableton guys, if you ever look out of your window and there is a man standing out there that looks like Ming the Merciless but he is wearing a t-shirt that says "CC absolute in session!"

you know who it is!
watching, waiting!

I'll be the one standing next to him that looks like Bluto with the "record automation seperately in arrange and give us bloody ghost clips" one (you could fit all of that on my belly)

I've already been scolded for mentioning them during the alpha

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:05 pm

Angstrom wrote:You know, Ableton guys, if you ever look out of your window and there is a man standing out there that looks like Ming the Merciless but he is wearing a t-shirt that says "CC absolute in session!"

you know who it is!

So you went from Chucky to Ming the Merciless?
I would have gone into acting instead of music, it would have been easier to get a record deal in the early days

Hehe, sorry if that came over wrong. It's just, the thought of Ming standing there in Berlin with that t-shirt really made me chuckle

It also oddly makes me think of 'Black Books'
Are you Bill Bailey?

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:33 pm

what you smokin' hoffman????!!!!!

Ming - bald.

Bill Bailey - hairy, very f'n hairy.

wtf

p.s. i'll be the one that looks like Beaker from muppetlabs, to Angstrom's Dr Bunsen Honeydew.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:47 pm

Pitch Black wrote:what you smokin' hoffman????!!!!!

Ming - bald.

Bill Bailey - hairy, very f'n hairy.

wtf

I remember now. In that show 'Black Books', Bernard would always call Manny (Bill) names like Gandalf, Chewbacca, Ming the merciless (it's the beard dude

),......

Heh, don't mind me. It's the heat

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:49 pm

the heat from yer G5 dualie in alpha mode, methinks.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:51 pm

Pitch Black wrote:what you smokin' hoffman????!!!!!

Ming - bald.

Bill Bailey - hairy, very f'n hairy.

wtf

p.s. i'll be the one that looks like Beaker from muppetlabs, to Angstrom's Dr Bunsen Honeydew.

whachoo talkin bout willis????

Bill Baily is bald on top

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:00 pm

ye call that bald?

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:04 pm

[quote="Pitch]
ye call that bald?

[/quote]

yeah

whaddayou call it?

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:13 pm

folically challenged?