ot...why i believe in the death penalty

jackmazzotti · Post by **jackmazzotti** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:05 am

http://www.exn.ca/Stories/1996/11/04/02.asp

Davis, a part-time video store clerk, contacted other pedophiles and traded video and pictures on the internet. He is charged with making, distributing, possessing and importing child porn.

Trevor Davis is currently out on bail and is scheduled to appear in Ontario Court Provincial Division on November 18. 1996 The police investigation is ongoing.

Police said some of the children were drugged and shown in sexual acts involving bondage and bestiality

I often wonder how hell could ever be hot enough for someone like that

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:34 am

jackmazzotti wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote: Start by getting your religion out of my government, then we'll talk about honor. Seperation of church and state. Respecting the Constitution, that's honor.
first have a vague idea of what you are talking about
the "seperation of church ad state" isn't in the constitution at all!

It's the First Ammendment to the Constitution.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

And you call yourself an American? I'm done.

jackmazzotti · Post by **jackmazzotti** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:46 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote:
jackmazzotti wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote: Start by getting your religion out of my government, then we'll talk about honor. Seperation of church and state. Respecting the Constitution, that's honor.
first have a vague idea of what you are talking about
the "seperation of church ad state" isn't in the constitution at all!
It's the First Ammendment to the Constitution.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

And you call yourself an American? I'm done.

sorry i was insulting in my previous post but thats not the separation of church and state

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:13 am

Just a reminder that religion, or worldview, is inseparable from politics. How you view the world shapes your politics. Whether you are monotheistic, polytheistic, pantheist, panentheist, atheist, agnostic, animist, humanist, whatever....you have come to some conclusions about the nature of the universe and that will shape everything else in your life. To the atheist who says "Get your religion out of my government" I say "Get your religion out of our government".

The point is that trying to enforce a humanist/non-theistic political viewpoint, on the grounds that such a viewpoint is somehow neutral, is truly ridiculous....only you can't see it because you are in the middle of that viewpoint, so it seems like the only rational viewpoint.

What is really called for is open, civil discussion of these matters, with true respect on all sides. That doesn't mean "I hear you, but I still think to myself your a stupid Christian sheep and totally discount everything you're saying without even thinking about it." ...it means "I hear what your are saying, and acknowledge and respect that you are an intelligent person who has probably thought a lot about what you believe, and why, and here's my best argument for why you are wrong."

It was said above to "Read these posts from the perspective of an atheist. Scary"....well, look around at our society from the perspective of a rational, intelligent Christian, and imagine what that's like. One of the central tenants of the social sciences, ala Giambattista Vico, is that to talk about another culture, you have to seriously understand and get inside that culture. This applies to Christianity as well. How many of you think that Christians believe you get into heaven by "being good"? How can you even criticize a set of beliefs when you're setting up straw men all over the place?

To me, I hear a bunch of people yelling "It's all relative...all paths are equally good...except the Christian path!! It's evil!!!" That, to me, indicates that there might be something worth investigating about this path that is somehow different than all the rest.....

But, to bring it back around, worldview and politics are intimately connected. The US Declaration of Independance begins by affirming the reality of a Creator, btw. However you answer the questions of origin, meaning, morality, and destiny will affect every aspect of your life, public, private, personal, and political.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:15 am

jackmazzotti wrote:sorry i was insulting in my previous post but thats not the separation of church and state

You've been far from insulting, you've been quite reasonable and patient, no worries. As a standard around here, sometimes things get out of control, sometimes music's discussed, in the end Ableton is cool.

ethios - Well stated.

ethios4 wrote:The point is that trying to enforce a humanist/non-theistic political viewpoint, on the grounds that such a viewpoint is somehow neutral, is truly ridiculous....only you can't see it because you are in the middle of that viewpoint, so it seems like the only rational viewpoint.

Religion is part of the human experience. Been there done that with churches. I still respect them, they're neighborhood watchdogs and good communuty centers. No need to talk about negative press here. I absolutely do not want religions abolished, they fulfill a vital role in many peoples' lives. Many many people need Jesus to help them through the day, get over guilt, move on through tragedy, give them something to write music about.

I do take the all-inclusive stance when it comes to religions. There's a time and place for religion. Interesting point about me getting my religion out of your government.

The US is being overrun by Christian dogma. One of my favorites is the Faith Based Parks Initiative. It promotes things like selling books in the gift shop saying that The Grand Canyon was created by Noah's Flood.
"We want to fund programs that save Americans one soul at a time."
President George W. Bush, January, 2004, in a speech in New Orleans.
Saving souls, using his post to promote Christianity, only through Christ may a soul be saved, one at a time with my tax dollars. I'm going to be sick to my stomach.

look around at our society from the perspective of a rational, intelligent Christian, and imagine what that's like.

Even from where I stand society is out of control, I don't base my values on the Bible but I do have values. I've read the Bible, I read the new testament a few times (much better stories). I totally understand it, I just don't want to live it, hear it be around it anymore or have it influence the direction of my country (the biggest on the planet <scary>). Basically yes, Christian salvation is living a good life in the name of jesus. That means nothing to me but I understand it.

To me, I hear a bunch of people yelling "It's all relative...all paths are equally good...except the Christian path!! It's evil!!!" That, to me, indicates that there might be something worth investigating about this path that is somehow different than all the rest.....

Stephen 'Brass Balls' Colbert wrote:And though I am a committed Christian, I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion, be you Hindu, Jewish or Muslim. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

Again, it's that other religions are overlooked. This goes with your straw man comment. That's the tough part about being a christian these days (I imagine), there are soooo many bad christian role models. It's a shame that W is lambasting your religion, taking it too far, being a hypocrital liar. It really is the straw men we're talking about, the ones in government who can't even get their religion right.

If you had to vote for an openly christian president would it really be a soft skulled oil well sucking Texan with a history of cocaine and alcohol abuse and an AWOL military record during war time? The only thing they can't get on him is anything sexual, LMFAO!! I'm glad Clinton was getting blow jobs in the oval office, finally the US was getting a good reputation!

EDIT: I forgot what I was originally going to write, ethios distracted me. Re: Seperation of church and state. This country was founded by a group of people tired of religious persecution in England. The Revolutionary war was a rebellion by the colonies because they didn't like how their tax money was being spent. In most (every other) western country it's unheard of for their leader to mention their religion in a speach.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:27 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote: there are soooo many bad christian role models. It's a shame that W is lambasting your religion

I couldn't agree more. To me there is an all out assault on Christendom and the character of Christ from inside and out....insane political agendas hiding behind a "Christian" facade, pedophile priests, gross misrepresentations of the essence of the Christian faith, etc. A person's judgment of the Church should only ever rest on the person of Jesus Christ, but unfortunately most people only see Christians...

fsk · Post by **fsk** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:36 pm

Im not religious anymore, I believe in the good it teaches but my ethics so clash with it, but... WWJD?? he'd forgive wouldnt he?... something I could never do.

"wwjd (what WILL Jesus do)

banish them to the Lake of Fire to be eaten by worms and un-ending flames for ETERNITY

allowing these grotesque things to live is a sin"

as much as I'd like to wish that to happen if I believed in Jesus, u know it wouldnt.

its quite sick that this video shop store clerk (which I also am :\) is given bail aswell...

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:00 am

This is just drama with no answers..... What was the point of this thread? That we all hate on the most mentally ill among us?
I don't have any stomach for these people, I've had a few girlfriends that had been molested, but jumping up and down about it on an internet forum doesn't do anything.

Also, honestly, a guy up here tracked down a halfway house for sex offenders, and shot to death about three of them. He screwed his life up because of all the hate he poured into these people. Kind of fucked up thing to think about is these guys would have been the ones they thought could be rehabilitated, the hardcore ones they don't let go up here anymore after Wesley Allen Dodd.

I see no problems with writing your congressman etc.. but his whole hate/kill/death thing.... like I said, the guy is sitting in prison for murder.

jackmazzotti · Post by **jackmazzotti** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:27 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222337,00.html