Scratching Digital Audio IN LIVE!

Rahlo · Post by **Rahlo** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:05 am

I played around with ms. pinky a little bit at NAMM this past January, and it does indeed work in Live. Like a charm, if I remember correctly. I almost bought it right then.

funknotik · Post by **funknotik** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:42 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I think this looks great, but my only concern is figuring out how to get the crossfader action recorded in the scratching. If it's a plug-in in live, that might be useless, because it would only record sample playback direction/speed. But for scratching, you need crossfader crabbing etc.

So I guess in live you'd have to have the plug-in go out from your i/o, in my case my presonus firebox, back to my mixer, and then back to my firebox inputs again into live on another track? That would add significant latency. Or can the special timecode vinyl go through the mixer first, indicating where the sound should cut off by where the timecode doesn't communicate, and sends silence?

Do you guys get what I'm saying?
Most of these digital vinyl scratching come with their own i/o device like ssl or torq., but this doesn't, so I'm trying to figure it out....
I'm going to get either the new m-audio torq or this, just for scratching. can't decide.
grb

Yeah i had the same suspicion trying to research it a little more. I thats not the case cause that would really suck and make it just another fake scratch program..

Rahlo · Post by **Rahlo** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:58 am

funknotik wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:I think this looks great, but my only concern is figuring out how to get the crossfader action recorded in the scratching. If it's a plug-in in live, that might be useless, because it would only record sample playback direction/speed. But for scratching, you need crossfader crabbing etc.

So I guess in live you'd have to have the plug-in go out from your i/o, in my case my presonus firebox, back to my mixer, and then back to my firebox inputs again into live on another track? That would add significant latency. Or can the special timecode vinyl go through the mixer first, indicating where the sound should cut off by where the timecode doesn't communicate, and sends silence?

Do you guys get what I'm saying?
Most of these digital vinyl scratching come with their own i/o device like ssl or torq., but this doesn't, so I'm trying to figure it out....
I'm going to get either the new m-audio torq or this, just for scratching. can't decide.
grb
Yeah i had the same suspicion trying to research it a little more. I thats not the case cause that would really suck and make it just another fake scratch program..

I don't know how they did it, but it doesn't have any additional hardware, and you can scratch with it. Check out this thread on the ms. pinky forum.

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:53 am

So I guess in live you'd have to have the plug-in go out from your i/o, in my case my presonus firebox, back to my mixer, and then back to my firebox inputs again into live on another track? That would add significant latency. Or can the special timecode vinyl go through the mixer first, indicating where the sound should cut off by where the timecode doesn't communicate, and sends silence?

I see what you're saying... It looks to me like you CANNOT route the timecode into your mixer, then into your host application. The "cutting" of the timecode signal causes jumps or drop-outs in the scratched signal (from mspinky forums).

This is a bad - it means that for scratched digital audio you will need a dedicated output from live, which will then route into your mixer for cutting with the crossfader.

BUT - won't the timecode controlled digital audio already be audible in Live WITHOUT any crossfader action applied???

This looks bad.

EDIT: (Actually - this should not be a problem... As the digital audio will only be heard when the fader is open).

Phew! Okay - I'm excited again now!

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:30 am

Ok, so let's get this straight.

The sample starts in live in a plug-in. Turntable is plugged straight into my firebox via phono adapter, but no crossfader yet. The track with the sample in the pinky vst is output via two dedicated outputs to my mixer's line inputs. Then my mixers main outputs are sent back to my firebox in to two other inputs, which I record in live on a new track.

Is this the necessary method here?

So to use the crossfader you'd need four line inputs and two dedicated line outs in addition to your normal i/o.

And let's see, for latency, it's pretty much the timecode vinyl latency sending to the software, then the digital to analog out conversion of the sample, and then the analog to digital coming back in (for software monitoring). but you could do direct monitoring without effects i suppose, so then it's just the timecode vinyl +output latency.

I dunno, could work, could be weird.

grb

arjanpetersen · Post by **arjanpetersen** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:13 pm

I've downloaded it from cycling site. Can somebody explain me how i am going to scratch?

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:57 pm

arjanpetersen wrote:I've downloaded it from cycling site. Can somebody explain me how i am going to scratch?

They have a flash animation showing how you set it up on the site. Check it out and I think you'll have your answer.

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:58 pm

rahlo wrote:I played around with ms. pinky a little bit at NAMM this past January, and it does indeed work in Live. Like a charm, if I remember correctly. I almost bought it right then.

Plus it is able to do video as well. I haven't seen anyone use it this way yet.

arjanpetersen · Post by **arjanpetersen** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:00 pm

kennerb wrote:
arjanpetersen wrote:I've downloaded it from cycling site. Can somebody explain me how i am going to scratch?
They have a flash animation showing how you set it up on the site. Check it out and I think you'll have your answer.

Can you tell me where on the site?

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:03 pm

kb420 wrote:Serato is nice, but I really think that Torq is the future.

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=3257

I can't wait to start seeing feedback on this. It looks like a comprable option to Ms Pinky's binky tool

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:06 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:it drives me crazy that people are still trying to scratch without records. just sayin... no offense intended.

It is a record that you are manipulating.

Allow your mind for a second to think of taking a vocal recorded by your live singer or someone in the audience on the fly, looping it, and then being able to scratch over the live vocals in near real time.

try that with a prepress record.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:59 pm

Scratching pre-recorded samples / beats on vinyl has been done. Turntablists have pushed that art as far as it's gonna go (for now).

Nobody ragged on Hendrix because he used effects.

"Yo, Jimmy - you're not a real guitarist because you're using something besides a guitar a cable and an amp".

Bullshit.

Cutting and scratching live recorded sounds is the shit, and if you don't like it, get the fuck out of the game, because that shit is fucking OLD.

Years ago I would record audio into Ableton Live 2 and minimize my set, and then maximize Final Scratch 1.1. I would navigate in Final Scratch to the sample I recorded, drag it onto a Final scratch "deck" (all the while Live was still playing my beats) and scratch the sample I just recorded.

Grabbing audience members to freestyle and then scratching their wack ass rhymes thirty seconds after they said them was fucking hilarious, and (at the time) unique.

Fucking small minds out there just like to criticize.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:06 pm

djsentinel wrote: If you going to scratch, do it the right way.

Ok, I'll mention your expert advice on this matter to Maseo (DJ Mase from De La Soul) and Richie Hawtin. DJ Sentinel, you're obviously much more of an expert in these matters than either of those fucking clowns. After all, they've only been in the game for 20+ years selling more records than I've ever dreamed of, designing and pioneering the art of DJing, while you were the "real deal" (while you were probably still an insignificant squirt shot out of your daddy's pecker of course).

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:21 pm

arjanpetersen wrote:
kennerb wrote:
arjanpetersen wrote:I've downloaded it from cycling site. Can somebody explain me how i am going to scratch?
They have a flash animation showing how you set it up on the site. Check it out and I think you'll have your answer.

Can you tell me where on the site?

It's actually on the cycling74 site.

http://www.cycling74.com/products/mspinky

And heres the actual animated demo of the set up
http://www.mspinky.com/pinky.swf

http://www.mspinky.com/setup_slideshow/ ... Setup.html

Jan Holm · Post by **Jan Holm** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:04 pm

djsentinel wrote: If you going to scratch, do it the right way.

I take it you don't have any hardware emulating plugins then !!

Once again I'll take the route stated in .sig