(OT) WTC Buildings.

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robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:43 pm

D DAS wrote:they probably have not. most people want to trust their political parents and have a hard time swallowing the fact that they could have something to do with 9-11. but to not investigate the truth is just ignorant. it is so much easier to blame brown people from a far away land, yeah that's it brown people from far far away, there could never be evil of that sort here in our own borders with our white skin color,,,or could there?

thanks for posting these clips, it is very important footage. please email these. post these and pass these on in as many places as possible and to as many people as possibe. we need to wake the 100th monkey
yeah right. Try these on for size so you can at least weigh your preference for conspiracy against scenarios contrived as facts for this hoopla.

This guy spewing the same conspiracy bullshit as the loosechange videos, etc. Go read this stuff for debunking of those vidoes and their premise and then go to the YouTube video of how the Pentagon was hit as well. That's enlightening.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

and the simple fact is that the U.S. was attacked. It wasn't bombed as part of a conspiracy theory. It's completely laughable concept...

rob.

glu
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Post by glu » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm

robtronik wrote: It's completely laughable concept...
powerful words, man
no prevailing genre of music:
http://alonetone.com/glu

robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:13 pm

glu wrote:
robtronik wrote: It's completely laughable concept...
powerful words, man
only after you actaully research the positions of the conspiracy theorists do you realize how comical they become.

rob.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:29 pm

robtronik wrote:
glu wrote:
robtronik wrote: It's completely laughable concept...
powerful words, man
only after you actaully research the positions of the conspiracy theorists do you realize how comical they become.

rob.
Why did the third building go down then? You know, the one that was never hit by a plane? Doesn't make any rational sense to me.

Why was the hole in the Pentagon round without any indication of wings whatsoever?

Why were they able to recover a paper passport from the rubble of one of the pilot, yet neither black box?

I agree that the theorists aren't that good at objective investigations, but I would say the same things about sites like screwloosechange, could you honestly expect a person holding that strong of a view of 911 events to rationally look at any information from the "left" with anything approaching objectivity?
I don't have any real opinion on what happened, I simply do no know the full story, but the holes in the official line are huge, and denying that is much more scary to me than believing everything that the Loose Change types do.

D DAS
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Post by D DAS » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:05 am

very true machinesworking and i stand with you. there are a lot of holes in the official story. why did that 3rd tower collapse? that alone is reason to investigate. i think the kids that made loose change have a lot of errors in their case, but they are making a ot of people start to think and wake up a bit and that is priceless.

but i do think this professor and others with him that are tackling this issue are doing some proper research and they have brought up some very scary facts. and yes to just dismiss all they have brought up is even more scary than anything, it shows were ones mind state is, right there with the rest of middle america.

if ignorance is bliss, then most of america is a blister.

D DAS
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Post by D DAS » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:30 am

this article was just posted on yahoo news.

the monkeys, their, their, waking up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060806/ap_ ... nspiracies

pilcrow
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Post by pilcrow » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:25 am

ikke wrote:conspiracy theories on a music production forum? :roll: :roll:
Are you kidding? It's one of our favorite subjects.

pilcrow
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Post by pilcrow » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:43 am

This stuff is hoo-hah. One of the key points of conspiracy buffs/nuts (nut-buffs?) is that the Pentagon wasn't struck by an airplane. They maintain this notion in the face of tons of physical evidence and eyewitness accounts like the following:

Following are some of the numerous eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash:

* Richard Benedetto: "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly."
* Omar Campo, a Salvadorean" "It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane. I was cutting grass and it came in screaming over my head."
* Joseph Candelario: "I noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House. This aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed into it."
* James Cissell: "I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. ... Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board."
* Dennis Clem: "There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."
* Michael Dobbs: "It was an American airlines airliner. I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle."
* Penny Elgas: "... the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car .... I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes."
* Cheryl Hammond: "We saw the big American Airlines plane and started running."
* Joe Harrington: "... one of my guys pointed to an American Airlines airplane 20 feet high over Washington Blvd."
* Albert Hemphill: "The aircraft, look[ed] to be either a 757 or Airbus."
* Terrance Kean: "I saw this very, very large passenger jet. It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon."
* William Lagasse: "It was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. ... I saw the aircraft above my head about 80 feet above the ground."
* Robert Leonard: "I ... saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon."
* Lincoln Liebner: "I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low."
* Elaine McCusker: "I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating."
* Mitch Mitchell: "I ... saw, coming straight down the road at us, a huge jet plane clearly with American Airlines written on it .... It crossed about 100 feet in front of us and at about 20 feet altitude and we watched it go in. It struck the Pentagon."
* Terry Morin: "The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines."
* Christopher Munsey: "I couldn't believe what I was now seeing to my right: a silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon ...."
* Vin Narayanan: "I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet."
* John O'Keefe: "I don't know whether I saw or heard it first -- this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet ...."
* Steve Riskus: "I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the ‘American Airlines' logo on the tail as it headed towards the building .... I clearly saw the ‘AA' logo with the eagle in the middle."
* James Ryan: "I see an American Airlines plane, silver plane, I could see AA on the tail. ... The plane was low enough that I could see the windows of the plane. I could see every detail of the plane. In my head I have ingrained forever this image of every detail of that plane. It was a silver plane, American Airlines plane, and I recognized it immediately as a passenger plane."
* Joel Sucherman: "... looking straight ahead there was a jet, what looked to be an American Airlines jet, probably a 757, and it came screaming across the highway ... [and] hit the west side of the Pentagon."
* Donald "Tim" Timmerman, a pilot: "I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon ... and so I have quite a panorama. ... It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question."
Mike Walter: "I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. ... It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon. I saw the big ‘AA' on the side."
* Ian Wyatt: "I duck, I look up, it looks like a silver American Airlines, twin-engine plane and then boom."

Finally, The 9/11 Commission Report states that on September 11, air traffic controllers at Washington's Reagan National Airport instructed a C-130H cargo plane that had just taken off from the airport to try to follow the plane that had been spotted on radar as heading toward Washington. According to the report, "The C-130H pilot spotted it, identified it as a Boeing 757, attempted to follow its path, and at 9:39, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower: ‘looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon, sir.'"

In sum, hundreds of people on nearby roads or in nearby buildings saw a large passenger plane hit the Pentagon and, as the above eyewitness testimonies demonstrate, numerous people specifically identified it as an American Airlines plane.
____________________

But the gov't has convinced all these witnesses to lie for the sake of the conspiracy, right? :) Don't make me laff. Oop! ... too late! :lol:

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:14 am

I used to be really into this issue...and still feel there is a very real possibility that persons in the US government played some role in allowing 9/11 to happen, or possibly even engineering the total collapse of the towers. The problem is that this issue will always be a fringe topic, and will invite much more skepticism than it will actually resolve the issue, meanwhile discrediting the person arguing this position in the eyes of most people. The basic fact is that much of the evidence necessary to really resolve this issue was destroyed, for whatever reasons.

Now, what is incontestible is that the US and UK governments have a clearly stated agenda of supporting terrorism on a worldwide scale, supporting horrendous dictatorships, overthrowing legitimate democracies when they are not in line with US/UK interests, and screwing over their domestic populations economically, psychologically, and politcally. These are the real issues that need addressing NOW, these are issues that can be credibly argued, and are issues that we can actually do something about.

These are not partisan issues, by the way. Presidents on both sides have knowingly engaged in these atrocities - Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy....it goes way back.

I would strongly recommend reading Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky. The book is stacked with facts. You can definitely argue with his conclusions on these issues, but you cannot argue with facts.

Educate yourselves!!

Captain Screwbarb
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re

Post by Captain Screwbarb » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:04 am

D DAS wrote:there are a lot of holes in the official story. why did that 3rd tower collapse?
Here’s a question: if someone was going to take the time to create such a detailed and large-scaled conspiracy, why would anyone leave such obvious holes in the story? That doesn’t make such sense.

Anway, here's a fun little view on it:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... 911_morons

ethios4
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Re: re

Post by ethios4 » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:35 am

Captain Screwbarb wrote:
Here’s a question: if someone was going to take the time to create such a detailed and large-scaled conspiracy, why would anyone leave such obvious holes in the story? That doesn’t make such sense.
because there's people like you around to ask that question!! :D
j/k

ishimaru
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Post by ishimaru » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:03 am

David Ray Griffin PH.D. Regarded as a being very conservative and was a former professor at the Claremont school of Theology wrote a book on 9/11 called The New Pearl Harbor. He explains the different theories about 9/11 and why there cannot be a conspiracy theory. For that to happen the US would have an official account of what happened exactly. From 7.00a to 7.00p that day. Where is the official account? David Ray Griffin's articles can be found at the link listed below as well as other accounts from scholars around the world.

http://www.st911.org/
Every situation(1) should be confronted with its opposite(2) to come to a better situation(3).

1 Thesis
2 Antithesis
3 Synthesis

- Hegel

robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:06 am

Why haven't we found proof that aliens don't exist?

Aha! Right, they must exist then. (this is the logic applied to these conspiracy 9/11 scenarios by their supporters).

You know what is forgotten in all of this? Where is the proof that there WAS a conspriacy? You know, because the gov't. is SO good at keeping secrets and all i can see how you'd think they'd be able to pull this off without a peep. RIGHT. LOL. You give the U.S. Gov't. too much credit. LOL.

You guys can spin your wheels on this for as long as you want, it's your time and your life.

rob.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:31 am

robtronik wrote: You guys can spin your wheels on this for as long as you want, it's your time and your life.
Not spinning, I realize I have no answers, just questions. Once again, why did a building that did not get hit by a plane go down? It defies physics as I know it. I'm open to reasonable explanations, fires alone are not a reasonable explanation.
Convince me, I'm open, I just don't get it. Same with the passport...
Last edited by Machinesworking on Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:42 am

When is the rapture due?
Last time i saw fox, they were doing a countdown to armageddon. Are we there yet? :lol:

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