(OT) WTC Buildings.

[DeadlyKungFu]

BOOO creepy conspiracy theorists.......





hooray beer!

[robtronik]

Guys, just go read this. It will help.



Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts (Paperback)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158816 ... 8?n=283155

help yourselves get educated on a lot of your questions.

rob.

[Machinesworking]

Guys, just go read this. It will help.

Rob, no offense, but you haven't ever come back with anything about why it seems reasonable to you that firemen decided to "pull" building 7 etc.
I'm not one who believes that the buildings were detonated, but I simply don't get the logic of that statement by Silverman.

Also, I have no interest in a book with that premise, I'm not one to spend money on books claiming the US government was responsible for 911 on their cover either. Why on earth would I buy a book that was so obviously one sided about what should be approached IMO from an objective standpoint?

[robtronik]

Guys, just go read this. It will help.

Rob, no offense, but you haven't ever come back with anything about why it seems reasonable to you that firemen decided to "pull" building 7 etc.
I'm not one who believes that the buildings were detonated, but I simply don't get the logic of that statement by Silverman.

Also, I have no interest in a book with that premise, I'm not one to spend money on books claiming the US government was responsible for 911 on their cover either. Why on earth would I buy a book that was so obviously one sided about what should be approached IMO from an objective standpoint?

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

The planes where hijacked and plowed into buildings. They fell. Lots of people died. And building 7 is supposed to be some harbinger of a conspiracy? (etc. etc.)

I don't know - you tell me. The burden of proof rests on the accuser to proof that there was a conspiracy, not the other way around. (not you personally tell me per se, but you know what I mean).

rob.

[knotkranky]

I'm with you on the frustrated part.

The thing that makes it difficult is people take this shit too far. You have people on the left saying that the government obviously did it, and there simply isn't enough proof of that to say that IMO.

you have people on the right saying nothing unusual happened that day, and there is plenty of proof that many things happened that make no sense.......

Who pulled building 7? Firemen with explosives because the fire was out of control? Never heard of that ever, it's just weird.

Most of the Air Force was doing some sort of war game that prevented them from intercepting the planes, and air traffic control lost the planes several times... both unusual events at the exact time of the greatest need for protection.

Why would Bin Ladin deny that he was responsible for 911? He certainly didn't shy away from saying that any US citizen is the enemy, that we are all responsible for our countries actions against his people, and that we are all enemies of islam and worthy of death. Why would somebody who years earlier declared war on the US people as well as government claim he wasn't responsible for his greatest "victory"?

Why was it so important to us to go into Iraq when it's a well known fact that fundamentalist muslims (the terrorists that attacked out country) and Saddam were pretty much sworn enemies? Why was it so important that we went against the UN, (read that as the rest of the planet), and alienated most of europe?
Like you said, they found no WMD to speak of, and Al Q didn't arrive until after we showed up....

Personally I don't know what I think about it, except I have a suspicion that somebody in our government knew something was going down, and figured we needed a wake up call. If you've never read Machiavelli, then you should. I think it's essential reading for any political science class, or it should be. He basically states that it's sometimes called upon of great men to do evil in order to further their cause. Makes me wonder what exactly happened, the official story is too buggy... though my feelings are that it's NEVER coming out if there were people who knew, so all we can do is look at eh facts, that's all.

Can't say I give much credence to the facts at all. I think you have to throw in the element of keystone cops in this conspiracy. It's opportunity, immoral moves and mistake coverups working in concert. How about the airforce just f'd up their gig that day. That shit happens all the time. Then they give some bs technical excuse about war training. They just blew it is all. Now, how is anyone gonna disprove that? The biggest hand this government had in bringing the towers down came from looking away. Thats enough guilt and conspiracy for me. As far as great men who must do evil to further their cause, I think hitler would agree.

[Machinesworking]

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

The planes where hijacked and plowed into buildings. They fell. Lots of people died. And building 7 is supposed to be some harbinger of a conspiracy? (etc. etc.)

I don't know - you tell me. The burden of proof rests on the accuser to proof that there was a conspiracy, not the other way around. (not you personally tell me per se, but you know what I mean).

rob.

Again, I'm not accusing the government, I'm not looking to lay blame on them. I'm just saying turning a blind eye to all the accountable oddities in the official story is to me, as ignorant as laying blame on the administration when the proof is not there.
I agree, there are plenty of paranoid stories that make little sense, but there's plenty of odd coincidences and just bizarre little events that make up the official story... I'm not convinced by you, or the conspiracy types that either of you have a clue as to what really happened, period.

Were the blinds up or down?

[Rod Underleaf]

Robtronik acts like his life depends on the Bush/zelikow official story. The questions surrounding the events of 9/11 constitute perhaps the greatest intellectual and moral challenge the citizens of the U.S and beyond will ever face in their lifetimes. Those who try to stop analysis of the events of that day do a great disservice to fellow world citizens. This is because no one should be denied answers to legitimate questions regarding events that lead to the deaths of loved ones, result in racist wars and plunge the citizens of the U.S. into an ammoral darkness that benefits primarily the military industrial complex and associated political operatives. Family members have come out to address the norad tapes fiasco that implicates the department of defense in lying to the Bush/Zelikow comission. They now openly question the "veracity' of the entire report. These people need to have closure in the form of a criminal investigation that definitively answers all questions and anomalies relating to 911. Why did the Clinton blowjob investigation cost $70 million and Bush/Zelikow Commission $16 million. This bunch lied about WMD, Katrina, Iraq war, domestic spying,etc. amouhting to intimidation of their own constituents("you are either with us or against us"). No effort or monies should be spared to provide the "Jersey Girls" with answers that they and others acknowledge are satisfactory. Scrutinize and be wary of those who try to prevent an exhaustive examination of all of questions relating to the facts of 9/11. The truth of the matter is not negotiable for the moral person. http://youtube.com/watch?v=A4m1HmjJIQM

[jamief]

. As far as great men who must do evil to further their cause, I think hitler would agree.

Exactly. Use your instinct people. You can feel it in your gut theres something very shady taking place and its not a million light years away from the situation that took place Germany in the 20,s and 30,s with big business and radicalised religion behind the wheel of power.

Get real This is no time to hide

[robtronik]

Robtronik acts like his life depends on the Bush/zelikow official story. The questions surrounding the events of 9/11 constitute perhaps the greatest intellectual and moral challenge the citizens of the U.S and beyond will ever face in their lifetimes. Those who try to stop analysis of the events of that day do a great disservice to fellow world citizens. This is because no one should be denied answers to legitimate questions regarding events that lead to the deaths of loved ones, result in racist wars and plunge the citizens of the U.S. into an ammoral darkness that benefits primarily the military industrial complex and associated political operatives. Family members have come out to address the norad tapes fiasco that implicates the department of defense in lying to the Bush/Zelikow comission. They now openly question the "veracity' of the entire report. These people need to have closure in the form of a criminal investigation that definitively answers all questions and anomalies relating to 911. Why did the Clinton blowjob investigation cost $70 million and Bush/Zelikow Commission $16 million. This bunch lied about WMD, Katrina, Iraq war, domestic spying,etc. amouhting to intimidation of their own constituents("you are either with us or against us"). No effort or monies should be spared to provide the "Jersey Girls" with answers that they and others acknowledge are satisfactory. Scrutinize and be wary of those who try to prevent an exhaustive examination of all of questions relating to the facts of 9/11. The truth of the matter is not negotiable for the moral person. http://youtube.com/watch?v=A4m1HmjJIQM

actually, no. I'm arguing in favor of the more easily proven scenario that has plenty of facts to back up the commonly understood events of the day.

I've read and looked at the questions that surround that day still and then look for further evidence that a conspiracy has taken place in lieu of having all the answers, and the conspiracy theory falls short. Way short. In fact, there is no proof of a conspiracy, only unanswered questions with regard to the events of that day.

Unanaswered events does not equate to a conspiracy. It just means that we don't know everything... which any reasonable person would understand as an acceptable outcome to events of that magnitdue that occured during that day.

The other stuff, the more outlandish things, like the towers were wired up for explosives and that's why they fell, are easily explained by the physics of heat, impact, and construction of the building... etc. That's all.

Believe all you want, but I'm going with what has been vetted in public, on the internet, and reputable people, not crackpot scientists or whatnot trying to get famous or live out their matrix like fantasies on the backs of a great tradegy.

rob.

[Machinesworking]

\The other stuff, the more outlandish things, like the towers were wired up for explosives and that's why they fell, are easily explained by the physics of heat, impact, and construction of the building... etc. That's all.

None of that explains building 7 being "pulled".

Unanaswered events does not equate to a conspiracy. It just means that we don't know everything... which any reasonable person would understand as an acceptable outcome to events of that magnitdue that occured during that day.

I do not find it an acceptable outcome when the list of unanswered events is as large as it is. JFK being shot is a far more cut and dried case than this, Iran Contra, the original WTO plot to explode the towers.... all make more sense than this IMO.

[Sales Dude McBoob]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w7he_sAVs0A

Pull it.

Pull what, exactly?

You know what? Fuck fucking Larry Silverstein. While I fully respect Robotron's patriotic commitment to our current administration (a commitment I do not share), you have to question Mr. Silverstein's interpretation of patriotism. He plays a major role in the redevelopment of ground zero. Do you know what sits in place of the World Trade Center five long years after the attack? A 16 arce gaping pit where the sun shines down into the mud 12 stories below the street level of New York City, leaving the vunerable seawall exposed all this time. Silverstien is more concerned with haggling for retail space for a shopping mall than he's concerned with securing lower Manhattan from flooding. Someone with an honest sense of patriotic duty wouldn't cripple efforts to revitalize that space. Greed is the only entity that this man has pledged an allegence to.

Listen to that video. You have to admit what he is saying is strange. According to his own words he had the authority and ability to instruct the NYFD to implode WTC7. What sort of rhetoric is this? Why would he make the decision to destroy a building housing offices of the federal government on September 11th? Is that patriotism?

[fr0st003]

good job on your first post

Yeah your right and this will be my last, I have been a live user since version 2 and have often came to the tips and tricks forum, which is a great wealth of user information. I have chosen not to post due to narcissistic individuals, who feel that having a higher post count makes them more knowlegable. Honestly. I'd rather be making music, I just felt compelled to post in this thread as I live in NY i saw what happened and i also happen to know quite a bit about physics as well as the political differences between Mormons and Evangelist.

[Rod Underleaf]

Robtronik is clearly a failure as a critical thinker. To be so passive intellectually is the hallmark of the brainwashed. You would lead us astray Robtronick when the true role of the artisi is that of the Socratic gadfly who feeds on the fleah of ignorance. An artist ideally seeks the truth along with the scientist. Robtronick wants us to accept a dwarfed morality. Others want true scientific inquiry brought to bear on this difficult subject.

[Machinesworking]

An artist ideally seeks the truth along with the scientist.

BS IMO. Personally i don't care for 99.99% of the interpretations of what an "artist" is, and yours in particular is nauseating.
I don't have to agree with robtronic to respect his right to an opinion, and I see no respect in your post at all.

[robtronik]

Robtronik is clearly a failure as a critical thinker. To be so passive intellectually is the hallmark of the brainwashed. You would lead us astray Robtronick when the true role of the artisi is that of the Socratic gadfly who feeds on the fleah of ignorance. An artist ideally seeks the truth along with the scientist. Robtronick wants us to accept a dwarfed morality. Others want true scientific inquiry brought to bear on this difficult subject.

LOL.

Machinesworking et al., I think we are having a good dialog. Thanks for it. As for the comment above...

rob.