Looping without warping ??

[Beatworld]

Does anyone one know if it is possible to loop an audio clip without using warp.

I can't see anyway to do it as the Loop otpion remains "greyed out" until warp is activated.

Sometimes I just do not want to warp but want to loop.

Am I missing something (in relation to this topic, not generally ) ??

[Johnisfaster]

warping doesn't do anything if the loop is at original tempo and the track is being played at that same tempo. so it doesn't matter if it's on or off in that case. if you want to play it at a different tempo then you'll obviously have to warp it.

the only other way is to use the follow action to "play again" at a designated time. which works fine. it'll loop it at ? amount of bars and it'll play repeatedly without being warped. but like I said warping doesn't do anything to the audio if played at original tempo.

[Beatworld]

warping doesn't do anything if the loop is at original tempo and the track is being played at that same tempo. so it doesn't matter if it's on or off in that case. if you want to play it at a different tempo then you'll obviously have to warp it.

the only other way is to use the follow action to "play again" at a designated time. which works fine. it'll loop it at ? amount of bars and it'll play repeatedly without being warped. but like I said warping doesn't do anything to the audio if played at original tempo.

Thanks John.

The only time it is really an issue for me is when the bpm detected by Warp is different to the "real" bpm.

For example, I have been having some fun doing a remix of Peter Gabriels Shock The Monkey in relation to the competition he is running.

The bpm for STM is 148 however when using some of the samples in the pack Warp comes up with all sorts of different bpms. The lead VX sample appears at something like 126 bpm when warp is turned on.

So warp does have an audible (albeit subtle)effect on these samples. Rather than loop I have simply been copying the edits of the samples that I want to repeat in Lives Arrange window. It works but looping would be easier.

Its not a show stopper but for me being able to loop without warp would be a nice feature.

[dr.wackler]

Drag the file/clip to the arrange, un-check warp, check warp again. The file/clip is now 'warped' at its original tempo and you can loop it.

[Nixon]

or just type in the master tempo in the clip..

[Angstrom]

I would like looping without warping for one very good reason.
To make your first recorded clip set your master bpm.

You could do it if the first clip was looping as unwarped!

HOW IT WOULD WORK:
1:record a freeform clip at a mystery bpm (recording clip set to 'unwarped')
2:use Lives 'send a midi note on start', function to send out a pulse on the loop start
3:use a simple external application to work out the gap between 2 pulses
4:send the bpm to live


With that system you would be able to simple play a bassline, or rip a loop from a record (whatever), then tap a pedal and live would set itself to the BPM of that first loop. Unfortunately that is something which is currently imposible.

Without loop-unwarped we have to record the first clip into a warped clip to get it to loop round and send the repeating trigger. When the calculated tempo comes back into live the original loop will now get crushed as it was recorded at a different tempo
EG original clip was recorded as 6/7ths of a bar length at 120bpm, external application deduces that the correct bpm is 102.8 BPM ... Live shifts to that but the original loop will now be 6/7ths of a bar at 102.bpm !!!

so, yes - we still need loop unwarped for a number of reasons

[EgAD]

Drag the file/clip to the arrange, un-check warp, check warp again. The file/clip is now 'warped' at its original tempo and you can loop it.

will this suggestion work in the session view?

[dr.wackler]

Drag the file/clip to the arrange, un-check warp, check warp again. The file/clip is now 'warped' at its original tempo and you can loop it.

will this suggestion work in the session view?

No, you'll have drag the clip to the arrange view, perform like suggested, then drag the clip back to session view.

or just type in the master tempo in the clip..

That's of course the most easy way!

[dr.wackler]

2:use Lives 'send a midi note on start', function to send out a pulse on the loop start

What is Live's 'send a midi note on start' function?

[Angstrom]

2:use Lives 'send a midi note on start', function to send out a pulse on the loop start

What is Live's 'send a midi note on start' function?

Richie Hawtins "secret" Live feature is in since Live 4 for everyone: create a file "Options.txt" in Library/Preferences/Ableton/Live4 write the line: -MIDINoteFeedback in it. If a session clip has been MIDI learned it will put out a note event when triggered, and a note event with velocity 1 per loop count and the note off on stop.Thats all. Robert

------ later he writes

The MIDI feeback option is not necessary anymore, since Live 5 this is enabled anyway - continues ...

http://www.teragon.org/wiki/index.php?title=Options.txt


used a lot for lightshows / VJs that kind of thing

[dr.wackler]

http://www.teragon.org/wiki/index.php?title=Options.txt

Thanks!

[j0shu@]

warping doesn't do anything if the loop is at original tempo and the track is being played at that same tempo. so it doesn't matter if it's on or off in that case. if you want to play it at a different tempo then you'll obviously have to warp it.

the only other way is to use the follow action to "play again" at a designated time. which works fine. it'll loop it at ? amount of bars and it'll play repeatedly without being warped. but like I said warping doesn't do anything to the audio if played at original tempo.

not true, there is audible degradation in sound quality, even in re-pitch and complex modes compared to non-warped clips.

its not bad, and you can always tweak it to improve quality, but its not crystal clear either.

[dr.wackler]

not true, there is audible degradation in sound quality, even in re-pitch and complex modes compared to non-warped clips.

A myth that can easily be proven wrong:
Put the same audio file on two tracks (same start position), one warped at its original tempo in Beats mode or Re-Pitch mode, the other one non-warped. Now put a Utility plugin on one of the tracks and invert the phase. Render. The output file is pure silence - not a single little glitch in it.
Just don't use Complex mode for that, because this indeed does slightly alter the sound - but who would use it for that purpose anyway...

[dj superflat]

i suspect this may explain some of the complaints about live's sound quality. that is, people are recording loops at BPM X, using warp only to get them to loop at BPM X, but using complex (because it seems best), and getting degraded audio even though looping at the same tempo at which the loop was recorded.

[j0shu@]

not true, there is audible degradation in sound quality, even in re-pitch and complex modes compared to non-warped clips.

A myth that can easily be proven wrong:
Put the same audio file on two tracks (same start position), one warped at its original tempo in Beats mode or Re-Pitch mode, the other one non-warped. Now put a Utility plugin on one of the tracks and invert the phase. Render. The output file is pure silence - not a single little glitch in it.
Just don't use Complex mode for that, because this indeed does slightly alter the sound - but who would use it for that purpose anyway...

excellent experiment, you had me excited there for a minute. however i just did it and ended up with a non-silent file, thus indicating one of two things, either the phase controls arent 100% or there is indeed sound quality change. my ears have always indicated to me that there is a difference in quality in the signal as soon as i switch that warp button to on.

check my procedure:
2 audio tracks with the same 150bpm loop
track 1 no warp
track 2 re-pitch
loop locks up squarely ie no 150.3 bpms or any tempo diff as such
track one load utility invert preset
listening i can hear faint sound
when rendered can still hear the sound and see waveform.

???