rtopia wrote:deva wrote:
Hezbollah is a social and political organization
Okay then...
Just so I'm completely "unconfused"...
...which social and political organization in the US would you compare them to?
Green Party? (what the hell - they're wearing green everytime I see them)
GOP?
Democratic Party?
Peace and Freedom?
PTA?
hmmm...
Black Panthers come to mind. The Panthers were a minority black organization in struggle against the racist white nation within which they were forced to live which is different from Hezbollah which is struggling against racist white imperialism from outside their country.
rtopia wrote:deva wrote:To claim outrage when others do as you do, is nothing but opportunistic posturing.
So what do you call it when these "others" routinely proclaim your country has no legimate right to exist and your purpose is to wipe your country off of the map?
- r
ps. rtopia knows this discussion is pointless (minds will not be changed here)
Oh please, drop that tired, unexamined propaganda. If Jewish control of the State of Israel can only be maintained by repression, then it has no more right to exist than Apartheid South Africa, and more importantly than some theoretical 'right' it cannot endure under those circumstances.
The State of Israel was created by Western powers and imposed upon the people that lived on the land. It must be recognized that this was unjust. The majority of Arab peoples do not want to 'drive every Jew into the sea'. Hezbollah does not claim that. The problem is with the government of Israel. It's expansionist tendencies, Zionist ideology, and treatment of Palestinians. Hamas and Hezbollah have just causes. You may not like tactical choices they make, but when the powers you favor use the same tactics, labeling one 'terrorist' is really just a way to marginalize.
Neither does Hezbollah desire to 'destroy America' or other such rubbish. They clearly state they oppose western imperialism imposing itself upon them. They state very clearly, you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. They say different cultures, religions and social structures can peacefully co-exist if they respect each other. Nowehere do they say they want to 'wipe the U.S. off the map. That is such a tired and unfounded rhetoric.
Israel cannot survive on the path it is on. More Israelis are leaving the country than people immigrating to the country. The government of Israel is betraying the interests of its people. I believe a 1 state solution is the only viable long term solution, but whatever the solution, it needs to happen. It may come down to that, or global war with everyone losing.
The us or them mentality is leading us all to doom. It is physics. For every action there is a reaction. You create what you fear. The U.S., saying Iraq is a threat of Islamic fundamentalism, attacks it and turns a secular nation, into a more theocratic one. Such a mindset is bankrupt of intelligence and subtlety. It can only lead to a worse situation. Life can never be pigeon-holed into black and white dichotomy. As I said in an earlier post, such us and them thinking, is the soil of fascism.
It was just such thinking, that led to the conclusion that Jews, homosexuals, cripples etc must be exterminated. We have to protect the fatherland, our way of life, our racial identity/purity. Now we have the U.S. saying we must protect our homeland, way of life, that 'they' want to kill 'us' for our freedom. It is us or them, we must subjugate/exterminate Arab/Islamic peoples.
The United States is perilously close to a full on fascist police state. It is valuable to read up on how Germany went from a republic to a dictatorship. When the Nazi party came to power in 1933, it was not instantly a totalitarian regime. The change happened over some years. Looking at the progression of changed laws over that time, it is quite similar to the changes in law and precedent in the U.S. All the laws needed to impose martial law in the U.S. and suspend the rights of citizens are in place. It is but waiting for the moment to act upon them. There are members of Congress talking about rounding up dissidents because they are 'aiding the terrorists'. That such talk can happen with impunity in the halls of power, even from just a few congressional members, should scare the shit out of everyone.
Here is an excerpt from an article regarding police and the transition to dictatorship in Germany:
"The Nazis came to power in Germany in January 1933 and established a dictatorship, ending the 12-year German experiment with democracy, the Weimar Republic. Yet the police, who had been charged with defending the Weimar Republic, were integrated relatively easily into the Nazi regime. There was neither a wholesale purge nor a wholesale resignation of policemen.
Most policemen in 1933 were not Nazis, though they were overwhelmingly conservative. They thought of themselves as neutral professionals and as impartial servants of the law. Their personal politics were supposed to be irrelevant to their duties."
