OT Bush calls Lebanon A new front for global war on terror

[djadonis206]

America gives everyone an opportunity to reach their goals - if you're goal is to be a good for nothing loser, america's cool with that

This is the 'American Dream'. As far as i'm concerned it is a myth at best, a lie at worst. I know some people might make do well from it. It sounds like you have and good luck to you. I commend people for working hard for what they get. I do not, however, believe that the playing field is level.

Definately not level - that's true but you gotta work it

get out there and hustle

get your hustle on - make it happen

perhaps I should be a social worker.

Curious when have any of us gone after something and not been able to get it - I'm just talking about us on this board

I've been pretty lucky in life - good mom and dad, good school, some talent and some luck, easy

but there's nothing out there except for music that has been out of reach

Until either Carl Cox charts or signs one of my tracks all my music is garbage <-- but that's just me - hopefully INTEC doesn't fold in the next year and Carl doesn't have another heart attack and die <----> gits down on my knees "Please Jesus, I know you've said some things and I've said some things but please let CARL live for another couple more years, thank you JESUS, AMEN"

[Gyu]

Curious when have any of us gone after something and not been able to get it - I'm just talking about us on this board

I've been pretty lucky in life - good mom and dad, good school, some talent and some luck, easy

but there's nothing out there except for music that has been out of reach

I consider myself very lucky too, but can you not see that some people are disadvantaged and need help? If you had a bad upbringing, abusive parents, lived in a bad neighbourhood do you think America would be giving you the same opportunities? This is how the American dream shows itself to be false. If you think that that's just life and that's their problem then O.K. I get where you're coming from but I don't share this view. Have you seen Scarface? 'The World is yours' Maybe, but at what cost?

[djadonis206]

I consider myself very lucky too, but can you not see that some people are disadvantaged and need help? If you had a bad upbringing, abusive parents, lived in a bad neighbourhood do you think America would be giving you the same opportunities? This is how the American dream shows itself to be false. If you think that that's just life and that's their problem then O.K. I get where you're coming from but I don't share this view. Have you seen Scarface? 'The World is yours' Maybe, but at what cost?

I agree - lifes hard for some people
But that doesn't mean they can't get out there and try

Its the pursuit of happiness that's garuanteed - not happiness itself

The playing field is all screwed up and a brotha like me may never be president but who's wants that job

I'm talking about bettering your life and yourself or your families life
Life's a bitch and then you die - that's a given

Yes, I've seen Scarface 89 million times

[Gyu]

Fair enough

[Machinesworking]

Not to point out the obvious, but you just completely contradicted yourself! Atheism is a "religion" just like any other. It's the expression of a worldview.

Religion is a worldview, but atheism isn't necessarily a worldview. All atheism means is that you don't believe in a soul or afterlife, it doesn't say anything about what you believe about life in general.
It's one of the reasons you don't see a large organized movement based on atheism, besides not believing in an afterlife and a higher power of some sort, there really are no unifying concepts to atheism. Politicians can't pander to an atheist vote simply because there is not agenda to speak of.

[stinky]

i find it interesting that these conversations always turn out to be American citizens defending the policies of their government to other disillusioned American citizens. It says alot for both arguments. Personally I find the HyperCapitalism that the western world engaged in to be very unfortunate for anyone unfortunate enough to born into anything sub middle class.. and anyone unfortunate enough to be born outside the western world. I don't find anything wrong with people working hard, getting their dues, and sharing them philanthropically.... unfortunately, that's not the majority.

[Machinesworking]

America is a successful country because we have a lot of natural resources, and are a large trading block world wide.

Venezuela is in a similar situation, and that really ticks off the hard core capitalists in out government, they are no threat to us in any way except they offer another form of government....

America is a capitalism with a democratic electoral process and some socialist government agencies. This isn't that much different than europe except there is a total war on some level against the socialist policies put in place. Reality is if there wasn't welfare there would be a hell of a lot more crime, period.

I have no problem with the system as it stands in many ways, though I would love to see a maximum wage, wouldn't that be a trip? Nothing too out of hand, say you couldn't make more than 500,000 a year, and the money could be used to give those working under you a higher wage...

Also, if Eminent Domain was fair, I would be for it, but here in Seattle, the 520 bridge really needs to be doubled, and the rich bastards that live near it are the reason that doesn't happen.

[ethios4]

It's one of the reasons you don't see a large organized movement based on atheism, besides not believing in an afterlife and a higher power of some sort, there really are no unifying concepts to atheism.

The question of the reality of an afterlife and the existence of a higher power two questions that define major aspects of a world view or concept of reality, especially given that a large majority of humanity believes in either/both of these concepts. Believing that there is no afterlife or higher power is still a belief, and an answer to both questions. There are intellectual consequences to believing this way, such as a tendency to support evolution as a theory of origin for instance, just as there are intellecutal consequences to believing anything.

From the way I see the world, much of our culture is an organized movement based on atheism, and it's hard to see because it is what we are in the middle of. If you truly believe in the existence of a higher power and/or afterlife, much of our culture manifests as expressions of an atheistic worldview.

Politicians can't pander to an atheist vote simply because there is not agenda to speak of.

The intellectual consequences of atheism create an agenda that can be pandered to, and is pandered to. Witness the battle over the theory of evolution. Witness the battle over abortion. Witness the battle over separation of church and state. Is it easier to convince an atheist to support or oppose government support of faith-based services? Would an atheist vote for a candidate who supports teaching creationism in public school?

[rtopia]

Personally I find the HyperCapitalism that the western world engaged in to be very unfortunate for anyone unfortunate enough to born into anything sub middle class..

define what "sub middle class" is

If I'm guessing your defintition correctly - I currently earn more than both of my parents combined when they were the same age I am now.

I don't think I'm unfortunate.

and anyone unfortunate enough to be born outside the western world.

The western world outsources a lot of jobs to these countries.
Do you think these opportunities would be available otherwise?

I don't find anything wrong with people working hard, getting their dues, and sharing them philanthropically.... unfortunately, that's not the majority.

I think a majority actually agree with this.

What you're talking about sounds more like charity than socialism.

Charity is voluntary and most - if not all - of the resources go directly to recipients that "ask" for them.

Socialism requires coercion, resources (mainly money) are siphoned off via inefficiency and the recipients take the resources as if they're entitled to them by birthright.

Is really that much of surprise that all of us footing the bill are bitter seeing everything taken from us not making a difference because of mismanagement and inefficiency?

I personally would prefer a process where the giver and the receiver got the same amount of relief/pleasure out of the exchange.

I would gladly give more, if the government would let me keep more - especially if it meant never having it taken from me again.

And I know I'm not in a minority.
The wealthiest in the world are generally the most charitable.

- r

[ethios4]

Healthcare is a topic which constantly gets attention. Many people frequently point to European countries and cry: "They have national healthcare for everybody." Well, do you know why those countries have that? Because the USA subsidizes the world's healthcare.

Expand on this please.

[Machinesworking]

It's one of the reasons you don't see a large organized movement based on atheism, besides not believing in an afterlife and a higher power of some sort, there really are no unifying concepts to atheism.

The question of the reality of an afterlife and the existence of a higher power two questions that define major aspects of a world view or concept of reality, especially given that a large majority of humanity believes in either/both of these concepts. Believing that there is no afterlife or higher power is still a belief, and an answer to both questions. There are intellectual consequences to believing this way, such as a tendency to support evolution as a theory of origin for instance, just as there are intellecutal consequences to believing anything.

OK yeah, but what am I? republican? democrat? Fascist? Do I have a strong set of ethical values based on not harming other people? None of those questions can be answered by whether your are atheist or not.
Abortion maybe, but a lot of atheists are "You made your bed now lie in it!" types, so that doesn't always apply.

Evolution, man, I really don't want to go there online. Suffice to say that I Have a good friend who is a born again type, that accepts the logic of evolution after many conversations with me..... It's all fine to believe whatever you want, but when it contradicts conventional reality, and rational thinking.... harsh I know, but evolution is a fact, creationism is a possibility, and they can in fact coincide.

Teaching religion in schools goes against the founding fathers original ideas. I would hope that a majority of christians, (and that sure seems to be the case at well over 75% of the population of the US! ), think it would be a bad idea, because there are too many different religions, and likely straight protestant teaching would win out, not unlike schools in England back in the day teaching only Church Of England style christianity.....

From the way I see the world, much of our culture is an organized movement based on atheism, and it's hard to see because it is what we are in the middle of. If you truly believe in the existence of a higher power and/or afterlife, much of our culture manifests as expressions of an atheistic worldview.

I see it the opposite, when you have a president talking about god as much as we do, I fail to see how we aren't wrapped in the cloth so to speak..... but I'm pretty used to being a minority, here in the states there's only about 5% atheists...... but somehow that's enough?

Politicians can't pander to an atheist vote simply because there is not agenda to speak of.

The intellectual consequences of atheism create an agenda that can be pandered to, and is pandered to. Witness the battle over the theory of evolution. Witness the battle over abortion. Witness the battle over separation of church and state. Is it easier to convince an atheist to support or oppose government support of faith-based services? Would an atheist vote for a candidate who supports teaching creationism in public school?

Well, I'm the only atheist in my family, the rest believe in god in one way or another. They all don't want to see abortion made illegal, religion taught in schools, and have no problem with evolutionary theory.
Basically, there are plenty of religious people out there that are on the same page as the ideas you're putting forth as being the domain of the atheist, and it's simply your opinion that they are being swayed by atheist "ideology". It's as likely they are swayed by other religions besides the one you think is being corrupted by atheism.
I really don't care whether or not someone believes in a god or not. to me it has no bearing as to their standing as an ethical person. in fact I go as far as to say that in my experience it's simply not an accurate meter to judge whether or not a person is living a life of integrity.

[Machinesworking]

Healthcare is a topic which constantly gets attention. Many people frequently point to European countries and cry: "They have national healthcare for everybody." Well, do you know why those countries have that? Because the USA subsidizes the world's healthcare.

Expand on this please.

Please don't! That statement was by far the most uninformed of the pack! Please, let it go man! It's OK to be wrong sometimes!

[hoffman2k]

Healthcare is a topic which constantly gets attention. Many people frequently point to European countries and cry: "They have national healthcare for everybody." Well, do you know why those countries have that? Because the USA subsidizes the world's healthcare.

Expand on this please.

Please don't! That statement was by far the most uninformed of the pack! Please, let it go man! It's OK to be wrong sometimes!

Hehe. It made me think twice...
USA subsidizing European health care. Thats a very funny statement.
Serving salads at McDonalds is not a form of healthcare

I really cant see why Americans cant get this basic service.
I pay like 100€ health insurance in a year.
In return, i get 2/3ths paid back from almost any health related costs.
Doctor, chiropracter, medicines,....

From what i understand. It's totally free in Canada.
Now that rocks

[djadonis206]

I agree with Stinky - work hard , make your cheese and then give something back

If I ever "Make it" and can afford to I'm kicking down

We're talking golf and art programs up the yin yang in Mississippi (where I'm from)

I'm also going to set up a "C" Student scholarship fund

A couple new schools and some black owned development companies throughout the NW and Mississippi <--- create jobs for black people doing some cool shit rather than working at McDonalds

but yeah - make your cheese and then help those coming up behind you

Machinesworkings I disagree on the MAXIMUM wage - no incentive to achieve or work hard - If I only knew I could only make 500k I'd give up at 499K

Success isn't always measured in dollars and cents but it help motivate some to get to their goals more to come - gotta take my girl to the bus stop

peace


Adonis

[subterFUSE]

Healthcare is a topic which constantly gets attention. Many people frequently point to European countries and cry: "They have national healthcare for everybody." Well, do you know why those countries have that? Because the USA subsidizes the world's healthcare.

Expand on this please.

It should come as no surprise to anyone here that we pay far higher prices for prescription drugs in the United States than anyone else in the industrialized world. But the question is, why?

The answer is government imposed price-controls.

In most other coutries around the world, but particularly Canada and Europe, there are strict price controls placed on the sale of prescription drugs. These price controls do not exist here in the USA.

In the case of a country like Canada, the drugs are often sold at prices barely above cost. So how can the drug companies recover the huge costs of R&D if they are selling their medicines almost at a loss? Simple. By charging some customers inflated prices to offset the difference.

Therefore, in the USA we pay more for the same drugs. Much more... effectively subsidizing the drugs for the whole world.

This is the basis behind arguments for reimporting prescription drugs from Canada into the USA. Since Canada pays less than consumers in the USA, they can actually re-sell the same drugs back to our consumers. The result would be increased pressure on companies to lower the US prices.

Of course, there are serious problems with doing that.... but that's for another debate.

I hope that answered your question.