OT: Global Warming? Record temps today in CA, USA

[glu]

Methane (CH4) is a greenhouse gas that remains in the atmosphere for approximately 9-15 years. Methane is over 20 times more effective in trapping heat in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide (CO2) over a 100-year period and is emitted from a variety of natural and human-influenced sources. Human-influenced sources include landfills, natural gas and petroleum systems, agricultural activities, coal mining, stationary and mobile combustion, wastewater treatment, and certain industrial process.

You and many others try to argue it from the wrong angle. It's not that humans are causing it, its that these little fuckers are accelerating the process. This makes it a faster race for survival, and gives us less time to figure out what we can do about it.

[subterFUSE]

And the single greatest contributor to methane gas emissions in the world is bovine flatulence.

[glu]

yes...and from the U.S......


http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarmi ... ulture.pdf

[forge]

so riddle me this: the earth's temperature is rarely static, always going up and down. throughout most of the planet's history, the earth has been way, way hotter than now. so why should i be surprised that the earth is currently warming somewhat? if you could prove the warming is the result of human processes, and is likely to cause more harm than the cost of trying to stop the warming, i might buy in. but i'm not sure how you can prove the cause is human where the earth warms of its own (yes, i know about the hockey stick, etc.).

sorry, can't resist.

dude - there are BILLIONS of cars emitting carbon monoxide and dioxide, and millions of factories spewing out all sorts of shit, not to mention more humans (also spewing out carbon monoxide and methane) than in the planets history, while the forests are declining at ridiculous rates, how can anyone in their right mind possibly argue that is not haivng an effect???

it's pretty simple - cause and effect

they know venus has a greenhouse atmousphere because of carbon dioxide and methane

and Glu just informed me the local temperature for me is about 84 in farenheit - DID I MENTION IT'S WINTER?

[glu]

ever flown in/out of L.A. or Mexico city?

wonder where all that smog goes... hmmm.......


Oh wait mr. dj, are you waiting for Mr. Bush (who get's his special global warming speech scripting from Exxon-mobile employees) to tell you the world is heating up?

[eyeknow]

the biggest problem, and this is certainly human made, is the co2 levels are being kept in the atmosphere. Even if you are not a scientist, these levels most likely are caused by us (human beings) although.......with scientific discoveries....it's not 100% certain.

Global warming is an oxy-moron of sorts, because it implies that everything is warming up. In fact, it's a very slight temp difference, but the problem is that the "cycles" of our planet are indeed changing.

There are other factors.......for example, where I live, there has mostly been a "natural" air conditioner called the "delta breeze". It's changing, not because of "global warming" but because of GLOBAL BUILDING! Concrete, steel and other "human" building elements create heat in warm weather situations. Frequently, my driveway, garage, and sidewalk are HOT even at 2 or 3 in the morning. We used to have plains of land around and not just 5 years ago, it used to ALWAYS cool down at night, but there is almost none of that beautiful rolling plains anymore. It's all concrete and stell, so it retains heat.........therefore, we, at the east of the sacramento area are having a much harder time cooling down at night.

[eyeknow]

hahahaha, I was so slow in writing my response, many others popped up inbetween.

We consume, we "give" nothing back and therefore, it's a drain........

[glu]

YOU know!

[dj superflat]

you all wouldn't have anything to respond to if someone like me didn't raising points with which you disagree (the thread would be -- global warming is bad; yes it is!; yes it is!; etc.). so i like to think i provide a valuable public service. don't worry, if there were any completely crackpot right wing stuff being espoused, i'd question that, too.

and you all ignored the key point:

can you establish that the harm from global warming is greater than the harm from whatever actions we might take to stop or retard global warming? anyone read lomborg? anyone aware of the conclusions of economists and UN ambassadors that global warming is very low priority compared to (e.g.) AIDS and other issues on which we can get more bang for our buck?

even if you're concerned about global warming, the question is whether it has higher priority than other problems afflicting the globe, whether given limited resources, it makes sense to focus on combatting global warming rather than other problems.

don't worry, i don't expect any reasoned response. you'll likely just assume (erroneously) that i'm a fascist bush supporter smoking the party line. enjoy.

[hoffman2k]

Be it as it may. If you want Belgian coconuts, then place your order now.
Why go to spain, if the spanish weather is coming to you?

It's pretty easy to find out if global warming is real or not. Wait ten years and see if it's any hotter.

I can tell you one thing. The hail gets bigger each year.
A few days ago, one little hail shower destroyed pretty much all the recreational stuff on a beach nearby. When do you think these pictures were taken? Winter or last week

[dj superflat]

ummmmmmmm, there's been bizarre and odd weather throughout history. without trends over whatever the relevant period, an anomalous twister doesn't demonstrate much.

but you miss my point: given the uncertainties regarding global warming (how much of an effect we're having, whether we can reverse the trend at anything other than tremendously high cost, etc.), i'd much rather spend the money on (e.g.) providing free higher education to those unable to pay, better public schools, eradicating malaria, etc. if we had enough money to go after everything at once, it'd be a different story. but that doesn't seem to be how things work.

[mikemc]

Be it as it may. If you want Belgian coconuts, then place your order now.

"...we see here where, the Belgian farmers, ever mindful of space and efficiency considerations, have carefully placed the coconut palms in straw, packing them neatly along the endive to ensure a bountiful harvest..."

[mike holiday]

so riddle me this: the earth's temperature is rarely static, always going up and down. throughout most of the planet's history, the earth has been way, way hotter than now. so why should i be surprised that the earth is currently warming somewhat? if you could prove the warming is the result of human processes, and is likely to cause more harm than the cost of trying to stop the warming, i might buy in. but i'm not sure how you can prove the cause is human where the earth warms of its own (yes, i know about the hockey stick, etc.).

sorry, can't resist.

we know not to smoke ciggatetts inside the house/car/unvented room

we know if you shut your garage door and sit in a running car you will die

we know the earth has an atmosphere which holdes gasses inside of it (air)

not to hard to figure out the harm of millions up on millions of fuel burning machines blowing smoke everyday inside of our house (earth)

[rasputin]

A little dip into history sees a pattern. In the 70s it was Rachel Carson with Silent Spring. Whoops, humanity is still here and reproducing by the millions. Then there were a lot of preductions about an impending ice age which would happen overnight. Then the hole in the ozone layer was going to cause our doom. Currently we're waiting for the global west nile virus pandemic, etc.

The thing I believed for years is that scientists were impartial. There are just as many examples of scientists and institutions with horses in this race as there are Evil Republikans/Big Oil. Scientists have to get funding/published/ego stroked/tenure/etc. The broad consensus that is claimed of scientists on the issue is not necessarily proof of the reality of the effect.

Where you can really see this is in medical research. Even after exhaustive testing, (pharma) drugs are found to have dangerous sideeffects. Nutrient A cures disease B, then it doesn't, disease C is caused by lifestyle D, then it isn't, and on and on.

I think the best comment is summed up above by someone who says "I know this is caused by global warming". How do you know that? This is what is known by the obscure neologism "thobbing" which takes the place of thinking: a person THinks of an Opinion, then Believes it.

r.

[hoffman2k]

ummmmmmmm, there's been bizarre and odd weather throughout history. without trends over whatever the relevant period, an anomalous twister doesn't demonstrate much.

but you miss my point: given the uncertainties regarding global warming (how much of an effect we're having, whether we can reverse the trend at anything other than tremendously high cost, etc.), i'd much rather spend the money on (e.g.) providing free higher education to those unable to pay, better public schools, eradicating malaria, etc. if we had enough money to go after everything at once, it'd be a different story. but that doesn't seem to be how things work.

I wont deny the fact that this weather might be an odd occurrence.
But it's one of many around the world.
Like i said. We'll probably know for sure in 10 years. This could be an anomaly, a change of the weather pattern or global warming.
Humans aren't all knowing.
But thousands of scientists agree that there is global warming. But there are probably as many who believe the opposite.

Your argument about the cost of it all is a bit dense though imo. Especially if your country has billions for war but not for education....

If thousands of scientists agree that this could be very disastrous, but not impossible to fix. Then hell, they might as well give it a shot?

The US spent billions before this war, just on the "what if" of the cold war.
But the kyoto norm is too much to obey?
Something that many world leaders agreed upon..

We'll see soon enough. Personally i see lots of money to be made in a climate change.
It makes you wonder....