Hi,
many thanks DP
warm basslines and funky house beats ? any replies ??
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distantpeople
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:21 am
warm basslines and funky house beats ? any replies ??
Last edited by distantpeople on Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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distantpeople
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:21 am
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Jaberwookie
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:52 am
I make breaks, not funky house, so its difficult for me to give specific advice... however, I've always found making bass sounds very tricky.
The most important thing in dance music IMHO is getting the kick and the bass to sit well together in the mix. The relationship between kick and bass has a lot to do with defining genres - for example, GENERALLY SPEAKING, if your making breaks, its good to make the bassline out of two patches, one sub and one mid/top, so you can "sandwich" the kick in between the two frequency ranges. With psy-trance, you want to get the compression and eq set so that the bass and kick work together to create a continuous rhythm (often of 16th notes).
So the best thing to do is to listen to your favourite tracks (through the speakers you'll be monitoring on!) and try to work out where the kick and bass are in relation to eachother, then try to mimic it.
I don't really think it matters what you use to make your bass patches (although Trilogy would be cool)... just get to know your compressors and eqs, and keep analysing tracks you admire. I generally spend about a week working on drums and bass before I do anything else! Its a long learning process, but don't give up...
The most important thing in dance music IMHO is getting the kick and the bass to sit well together in the mix. The relationship between kick and bass has a lot to do with defining genres - for example, GENERALLY SPEAKING, if your making breaks, its good to make the bassline out of two patches, one sub and one mid/top, so you can "sandwich" the kick in between the two frequency ranges. With psy-trance, you want to get the compression and eq set so that the bass and kick work together to create a continuous rhythm (often of 16th notes).
So the best thing to do is to listen to your favourite tracks (through the speakers you'll be monitoring on!) and try to work out where the kick and bass are in relation to eachother, then try to mimic it.
I don't really think it matters what you use to make your bass patches (although Trilogy would be cool)... just get to know your compressors and eqs, and keep analysing tracks you admire. I generally spend about a week working on drums and bass before I do anything else! Its a long learning process, but don't give up...
MacPro Quad Xeon 2.66, 4GB, Fireface 400, Event ASP8, UAD-1e, Live 7, Kore 2, Reaktor 5
Kontakt 3, Battery 3, Plogue Bidule, Sylenth1, Blue, SoundToys Native FX and some other bits and bobs
Kontakt 3, Battery 3, Plogue Bidule, Sylenth1, Blue, SoundToys Native FX and some other bits and bobs
As far as basslines go, I'm not sure you need a new synth or maybe just learning how to program the ones you have? It really depends on what kind of house your doing as well.
I do mainly tribal/progressive house which requires deepr basses. One cool thing to do is to add a slow attacking filter envelope on your bass to give it that wooooo--ooop" sound that is so popular in progressive house today.
The other thing to remember is that it's important to really get the groove right between the bass and the drums. What I like to do is play a short bass riff and follow that up with a delayed chord stab or synth effect of some kind to give it a kind of a call-and-response groove feel. Instead of playing a bass note on every note of the measure just try a catchy riff here and there. With house basslines it's not always the notes you play but the rests you take that give it groove.
When it comes to drum beats, just remember it has to swing a bit. Play off of your bassline to keep things really tight. You might go, "boom, boom" with your bassline then follow that up with some toms going "dum, dum, dum" while the bassline rests.
Use lots of congas and shakers as well. Try some delays on your sends and routhe those drums to their own channel and try sdome different delay settings to give it an almost roll type feel. You can also use Live's built in arpeggiotar on single drums hits for interesting flams/rolls.
Also remember to tune each drum in your kit to the bassline, so that it doesn't cllash and sits in the mix well. This is especially important with congas and other "pitched" drums.
If you've done all this and your still not getting the groove try putting a simple delay as an insert effect on your bassline and experiment with very small delay times to get more space between the bass and drums. Be carefull because this will sound like shit nif you not carefull.
The last piece of advice I would have would be warp one of your favorite house tracks and put it into ableton. Try playing the drumline via impulse or try following the bass/lead..etc. It's not good to rip stuff off but it's a great way to learn. Hope this all helps!!
I do mainly tribal/progressive house which requires deepr basses. One cool thing to do is to add a slow attacking filter envelope on your bass to give it that wooooo--ooop" sound that is so popular in progressive house today.
The other thing to remember is that it's important to really get the groove right between the bass and the drums. What I like to do is play a short bass riff and follow that up with a delayed chord stab or synth effect of some kind to give it a kind of a call-and-response groove feel. Instead of playing a bass note on every note of the measure just try a catchy riff here and there. With house basslines it's not always the notes you play but the rests you take that give it groove.
When it comes to drum beats, just remember it has to swing a bit. Play off of your bassline to keep things really tight. You might go, "boom, boom" with your bassline then follow that up with some toms going "dum, dum, dum" while the bassline rests.
Use lots of congas and shakers as well. Try some delays on your sends and routhe those drums to their own channel and try sdome different delay settings to give it an almost roll type feel. You can also use Live's built in arpeggiotar on single drums hits for interesting flams/rolls.
Also remember to tune each drum in your kit to the bassline, so that it doesn't cllash and sits in the mix well. This is especially important with congas and other "pitched" drums.
If you've done all this and your still not getting the groove try putting a simple delay as an insert effect on your bassline and experiment with very small delay times to get more space between the bass and drums. Be carefull because this will sound like shit nif you not carefull.
The last piece of advice I would have would be warp one of your favorite house tracks and put it into ableton. Try playing the drumline via impulse or try following the bass/lead..etc. It's not good to rip stuff off but it's a great way to learn. Hope this all helps!!
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Jaberwookie
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:52 am
yeah, what he said... I forgot to mention about tuning your drum hits. It can make all the difference to your groove...
MacPro Quad Xeon 2.66, 4GB, Fireface 400, Event ASP8, UAD-1e, Live 7, Kore 2, Reaktor 5
Kontakt 3, Battery 3, Plogue Bidule, Sylenth1, Blue, SoundToys Native FX and some other bits and bobs
Kontakt 3, Battery 3, Plogue Bidule, Sylenth1, Blue, SoundToys Native FX and some other bits and bobs
I made the same mistake. I thought that the bass sounds i had weren't good enough. So i got trilogy, wicked piece of software, but it didn't make my basslines any better until i learned to get the right balance between the kick & bass.
P4 3.2 ghz 1gb ram,160gb system hd,80gb audio hd,M-Audio AudioPhile 24/96,M-Audio Delta 1010 LT,M-Audio Radium 49,M-Audio Trigger Finger,Uc 16,Roland MC 303,Beringer EuroRack UB1622FX Pro,Alesis Monitor 1 MK2
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distantpeople
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:21 am
As far as eqing goes, you can go to www.computermusic.com and they have eq charts that will help get you started. The main thing is experiment. Compression is also very important on drums. Don't just try to boost your drums with eq if anything you should be cutting or slightly boosting.
Sidechaining will also work wonders for you. I found a free sidechaining vst that works a treat in Live. It's on a website called Twisdtedlemon. Don't have the url but you should be able to find it via google. The name of the ap is sidekick.
Sidechaining will also work wonders for you. I found a free sidechaining vst that works a treat in Live. It's on a website called Twisdtedlemon. Don't have the url but you should be able to find it via google. The name of the ap is sidekick.
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distantpeople
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:21 am
cheers voodoo, ill give that compressor a blast, im not sure how your ment to set side chain up but ill give it a go,
i get computer music each month so maybe printing off the eq chart might help as reference, i want to be able to create a live template with rough guide line settings for my drums so at least all of my projects sound similar in quality
thanks DP
i get computer music each month so maybe printing off the eq chart might help as reference, i want to be able to create a live template with rough guide line settings for my drums so at least all of my projects sound similar in quality
thanks DP
OK, I posted this somewhere else, but I can't find it.
Try this:
If your bassline is in the key of A (55, 110, 220, 440 hz fundamental) then put a very steeply sloped notch filter on your kick at 55 or 110 hz.
Then, EQ your kick with a very sharp peak at a non-multiple or the bassline fundamental. For instance, 72 or 90 Hz. (stay away from 5ths, in this case 82.5 Hz or 165 Hz).
Put a corresponding notch in your Bassline.
Ta-da, you now have a little more play between the two elements.
DO NOT USE THIS TRICK WITH SINE WAVE KICKS. It's pretty much for acoustic, or "noisy" kicks. Pitch enveloped Sine wave kicks are too tonal for this sort of thing, or you'll alter the dynamics of the kick over time, which will fuck with the apparent timing of your kick or rob it of energy.
Try this:
If your bassline is in the key of A (55, 110, 220, 440 hz fundamental) then put a very steeply sloped notch filter on your kick at 55 or 110 hz.
Then, EQ your kick with a very sharp peak at a non-multiple or the bassline fundamental. For instance, 72 or 90 Hz. (stay away from 5ths, in this case 82.5 Hz or 165 Hz).
Put a corresponding notch in your Bassline.
Ta-da, you now have a little more play between the two elements.
DO NOT USE THIS TRICK WITH SINE WAVE KICKS. It's pretty much for acoustic, or "noisy" kicks. Pitch enveloped Sine wave kicks are too tonal for this sort of thing, or you'll alter the dynamics of the kick over time, which will fuck with the apparent timing of your kick or rob it of energy.
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john gordon
- Posts: 2680
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:24 am
- Location: Delaware
nice one.thankyouM. Bréqs wrote:OK, I posted this somewhere else, but I can't find it.
Try this:
If your bassline is in the key of A (55, 110, 220, 440 hz fundamental) then put a very steeply sloped notch filter on your kick at 55 or 110 hz.
Then, EQ your kick with a very sharp peak at a non-multiple or the bassline fundamental. For instance, 72 or 90 Hz. (stay away from 5ths, in this case 82.5 Hz or 165 Hz).
Put a corresponding notch in your Bassline.
Ta-da, you now have a little more play between the two elements.
DO NOT USE THIS TRICK WITH SINE WAVE KICKS. It's pretty much for acoustic, or "noisy" kicks. Pitch enveloped Sine wave kicks are too tonal for this sort of thing, or you'll alter the dynamics of the kick over time, which will fuck with the apparent timing of your kick or rob it of energy.
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joeysilvero
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:02 pm
maybe you should get stylus RMX,
programmin beats is easy for the arrangement but i also find it hard to process and get them to sound full, you hear certain beats that simply sound amazing on their own, im yet to create something like this
any more tips ?? i dont like loops myself but im starting to think layering different loop elements is the only way to go to create a solid house beat with little processing involved
j
programmin beats is easy for the arrangement but i also find it hard to process and get them to sound full, you hear certain beats that simply sound amazing on their own, im yet to create something like this
any more tips ?? i dont like loops myself but im starting to think layering different loop elements is the only way to go to create a solid house beat with little processing involved
j
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djadonis206
- Posts: 6490
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA.
I wanted to respond to this yesterday but I think I actually had to "work" 
anywayz
My advice is don't think to hard about it
grab you some loops off some of your favorite records (house, grab house loops, breaks grab some break loops, etc etc)
Off of those loops you'll find some slamming kicks, already to go - stack the kicks to really get that punchy housey thing going on
what I do is drag my loops into Ableton - cut the kick out and import into Simpler, easy <-- slamming kick
your bassline / lead line - think REASON - the simpler the bassline the better, it's the variations on the breaks that really bring the track alive
read my boys tutorial on producing house on his myspace page
www.myspace.com/mikebalance
PLEASE READ before asking any producing questions
I get frequently asked a lot of the same questions by new and upcoming producers about different programs, techniques and what to use so I have taken the time to provide some information on it here. Please refer to this before personally asking me any questions and it will save us all a lot of time
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
WHAT I USE
First off, I get asked what the best programs are and to be honest that really depends on what you want to do, what you are most skilled at and how your brain functions creatively. I used to use a minimal hardware set up with an MPC 2000 and got a lot of good records out of it, but I have since embraced the software revolution and found these programs to work best for me:
Reason 3 (with no Refills!)
Acid Pro 5 (usually rewired with Reason)
Wavelab 4 (for .wav editing and some mastering)
Recycle 2
Cubase SX 2
Fruity Loops 6
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
BEATS/SAMPLES
I have a huge archive of beat loops, samples and sound effects and you know how I got most of them? The old fashioned way: sampling my own record collection! You'd be amazed at how many beats and loops you can sample off your own records if you just listen for them. And once you've edited them down properly, it's pretty easy just to single out a kick or a snare from a simple beat loop. Another good thing is to scour the internet for sample archive sites. Some of them have some pretty decent stuff to offer for free. I really don't recommend sample CD ROMs that are mass produced by remix/producing services. They're usually very expensive and have mostly lame sounds and very little that's usable.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
LOOP EDITING
To get the most out of a beat loop or sample: After you've edited it down to the exact part you want to use (I suggest doing this in Wavelab but a lot of people like Sound Forge), import it into a loop program like Acid Pro or Ableton Live. Once you've picked the tempo you want, export or render the desired measures (usually just 1 works fine for beats) back out into a .wav or .aif file. Now open it up in Recycle, pick the duration in the Bars and Beats section and make sure it's displaying the proper tempo. Then go to View > Show Grid and now it should be easy to slice your loops into 4ths or 8ths. You can use .rex files in most programs (Reason, Ableton, Cubase, etc.) so as long as you set up your project to the tempo you imported your loop with then your loop will sound way cleaner, tighter and will be more versatile!
BASSLINES
Unless you are an advanced keyboard player, basslines can be the most difficult part of your project. The trick is to know when to keep it simple and when to get tricky with it. At first, pick simple notes that go with your sample or whatever element you want compliment it with (you don't even have to pick a huge range of notes, some of the simplest bassline can be the most powerful). Then just experiment... try different rhythms and syncopations (Copy and Paste goes a long way here) and don't be afraid to use a combo of your keyboard and your sequencer's step editor. A lot of the time you can move several notes up or down an odd number of keys (3, 5 or 7) to get them to work together better.
BASSLINES IN REASON
A lot of you who use Reason always say you just can't get a good bass sound out of it. The trick is to combine just the right path of things to get the most out of Reason's synths... here's an example: For big, nasty, electro type basslines, combine a Malstrom with an MClass Compressor, crank up the Ratio and the Input and top it off by adding a Scream for a touch of distortion (Tube works good) and a Vocoder switched to Equalizer and experiment with the settings. For juicy, bouncy, rich sounding, funky basslines: Use a Subtractor with a mono bass synth (play with the cutoff frequency a bit too) combined a little bit with the Comp-1 compressor. Then add a Scream with a little bit of Tape distortion then run it all through a Vocoder set to 4 Band Equalizer. To maximize any Reason synth, try using a Combinator to combine several synths together that are playing the same midi track... you'll be amazed by how big it can sound and how much more control you'll have... just remember not to go overboard!
MASTERING
This is usually the part that requires the most 'trial and error'. As far as mixing down your project goes, that all depends on how rough, smooth, dirty, clean or bangin' you want it to sound. You may not even want it to sound like any of those things for all I know but what I recommend the most for mastering is Wavelab. The main reason being because it's simple, easy to navigate and you can render any of the VST or Direct X effects you might have. For most of my projects I've found that a VST Multiband Compressor or a Sonic Foundry Tack Compressor gets everything full sounding and helps level it all out. After that a little bit of Wavelab's own EQ and a touch of Sonic Foundry's Smooth/Enhance helps touch things up. Then to max out your levels, use Normalize and the buit in Leveler and bring it up to about 3db or as high as you can get it without noticeable clipping. The most important thing of all is to experiment and see what works best for you
Check out some of my beats on www.soundclick.com/djadonis206
and the VIA MUSIQUE label www.myspace.com/viamusique
Peace
DJ Adonis!
anywayz
My advice is don't think to hard about it
grab you some loops off some of your favorite records (house, grab house loops, breaks grab some break loops, etc etc)
Off of those loops you'll find some slamming kicks, already to go - stack the kicks to really get that punchy housey thing going on
what I do is drag my loops into Ableton - cut the kick out and import into Simpler, easy <-- slamming kick
your bassline / lead line - think REASON - the simpler the bassline the better, it's the variations on the breaks that really bring the track alive
read my boys tutorial on producing house on his myspace page
www.myspace.com/mikebalance
PLEASE READ before asking any producing questions
I get frequently asked a lot of the same questions by new and upcoming producers about different programs, techniques and what to use so I have taken the time to provide some information on it here. Please refer to this before personally asking me any questions and it will save us all a lot of time
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
WHAT I USE
First off, I get asked what the best programs are and to be honest that really depends on what you want to do, what you are most skilled at and how your brain functions creatively. I used to use a minimal hardware set up with an MPC 2000 and got a lot of good records out of it, but I have since embraced the software revolution and found these programs to work best for me:
Reason 3 (with no Refills!)
Acid Pro 5 (usually rewired with Reason)
Wavelab 4 (for .wav editing and some mastering)
Recycle 2
Cubase SX 2
Fruity Loops 6
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
BEATS/SAMPLES
I have a huge archive of beat loops, samples and sound effects and you know how I got most of them? The old fashioned way: sampling my own record collection! You'd be amazed at how many beats and loops you can sample off your own records if you just listen for them. And once you've edited them down properly, it's pretty easy just to single out a kick or a snare from a simple beat loop. Another good thing is to scour the internet for sample archive sites. Some of them have some pretty decent stuff to offer for free. I really don't recommend sample CD ROMs that are mass produced by remix/producing services. They're usually very expensive and have mostly lame sounds and very little that's usable.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
LOOP EDITING
To get the most out of a beat loop or sample: After you've edited it down to the exact part you want to use (I suggest doing this in Wavelab but a lot of people like Sound Forge), import it into a loop program like Acid Pro or Ableton Live. Once you've picked the tempo you want, export or render the desired measures (usually just 1 works fine for beats) back out into a .wav or .aif file. Now open it up in Recycle, pick the duration in the Bars and Beats section and make sure it's displaying the proper tempo. Then go to View > Show Grid and now it should be easy to slice your loops into 4ths or 8ths. You can use .rex files in most programs (Reason, Ableton, Cubase, etc.) so as long as you set up your project to the tempo you imported your loop with then your loop will sound way cleaner, tighter and will be more versatile!
BASSLINES
Unless you are an advanced keyboard player, basslines can be the most difficult part of your project. The trick is to know when to keep it simple and when to get tricky with it. At first, pick simple notes that go with your sample or whatever element you want compliment it with (you don't even have to pick a huge range of notes, some of the simplest bassline can be the most powerful). Then just experiment... try different rhythms and syncopations (Copy and Paste goes a long way here) and don't be afraid to use a combo of your keyboard and your sequencer's step editor. A lot of the time you can move several notes up or down an odd number of keys (3, 5 or 7) to get them to work together better.
BASSLINES IN REASON
A lot of you who use Reason always say you just can't get a good bass sound out of it. The trick is to combine just the right path of things to get the most out of Reason's synths... here's an example: For big, nasty, electro type basslines, combine a Malstrom with an MClass Compressor, crank up the Ratio and the Input and top it off by adding a Scream for a touch of distortion (Tube works good) and a Vocoder switched to Equalizer and experiment with the settings. For juicy, bouncy, rich sounding, funky basslines: Use a Subtractor with a mono bass synth (play with the cutoff frequency a bit too) combined a little bit with the Comp-1 compressor. Then add a Scream with a little bit of Tape distortion then run it all through a Vocoder set to 4 Band Equalizer. To maximize any Reason synth, try using a Combinator to combine several synths together that are playing the same midi track... you'll be amazed by how big it can sound and how much more control you'll have... just remember not to go overboard!
MASTERING
This is usually the part that requires the most 'trial and error'. As far as mixing down your project goes, that all depends on how rough, smooth, dirty, clean or bangin' you want it to sound. You may not even want it to sound like any of those things for all I know but what I recommend the most for mastering is Wavelab. The main reason being because it's simple, easy to navigate and you can render any of the VST or Direct X effects you might have. For most of my projects I've found that a VST Multiband Compressor or a Sonic Foundry Tack Compressor gets everything full sounding and helps level it all out. After that a little bit of Wavelab's own EQ and a touch of Sonic Foundry's Smooth/Enhance helps touch things up. Then to max out your levels, use Normalize and the buit in Leveler and bring it up to about 3db or as high as you can get it without noticeable clipping. The most important thing of all is to experiment and see what works best for you
Check out some of my beats on www.soundclick.com/djadonis206
and the VIA MUSIQUE label www.myspace.com/viamusique
Peace
DJ Adonis!
-
joeysilvero
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:02 pm
right so maybe slicing loops up and using the hits to arrange your own beats may be the best way to go, the loops have already been compressed and eq'd right ?? so minimal amount of processing would be needed ?
i was wondering if it might be worth using hip hop drum samples as hip hop kicks can be very dub with sub freq's layer with a punchy kick then bounce together and you have a solid kick,
hi hats are the main thing, i can get a balance between kick and snare
its always the hi hat sounds that dont work well for me
joe
i was wondering if it might be worth using hip hop drum samples as hip hop kicks can be very dub with sub freq's layer with a punchy kick then bounce together and you have a solid kick,
hi hats are the main thing, i can get a balance between kick and snare
its always the hi hat sounds that dont work well for me
joe