Is it illegal to sample a hardware synth's presets?

ff4sale · Post by **ff4sale** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:16 am

Is it illegal to sample a hardware synth's presets and RESELL them digitally?

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:17 am

id say so

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:18 am

I think it is if you use the name of the hardware in it. for instance if you sell a sample cd and say "samples of korg ms2000" then you are probably stepping on korgs toes. but I think if you sample it and don't use the name then there is no infringement though I could be wrong. but in the end how could they possibly know if you sampled them if you don't say so?

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:19 am

Unethical maybe, but I cant see how it would be illegal

that would be like saying recording a tuned piano is illegal

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:21 am

but like I said isn't it illegal to sell AS samples of that instrument. you can use the samples but you can't use the name of the gear without royalties right?

I'm sure I don't have all the details of it but I'm sure it's something to that effect.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:29 am

I wonder if say,Korg would bother, perhaps contrary, it may convince someone to get real thing, giving credits would take care of ethical aspect and it is publicity. However if there is more then just impulses, like shorts licks or phrases(from presets) then it might, though unlikely-who would bother- get complicated.

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:31 am

well, frankly people who know about the gear will know it's just the presets and it wouldnt be looked upon favourably by reviewers, distributors, basically anyone required for a legit product to sell - if not for the ethical reasons, even just because they're not going to be impressed when there are so many proper dudes out there making their own

so really you're looking at a kind of Ebay blank disk with permenant marker quick buck type jobby, so I guess the question is "will they come after me if I sample my synths and start selling the CDs on ebay", in which case, it depends on how good you are at knowing when to change your account details and move on

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:35 am

but even there I think Rikhyray is right, they probably wouldnt bother

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:37 am

Interesting question, especially as the new Emu X2 Sampler has a feature designed to do this automatically.

sidandnancy · Post by **sidandnancy** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:47 am

The answer depends on where you are selling the samples, and the nature of the sample.

In England and Wales, you couldn't use the name of the synth without a trade mark licence from the manufacturer. However, whether sampling the sound of the synth is infringement (ie without using the brand name of the manufacturer to identify it) will depend on whether the preset amounts to a musical work or not. For something like Absynth, where you have extremely long presets that almost amount to tunes in themsleves, I'd say that sampling the whole lot of a long preset probably is copyright infringement. However if it just the sound - and that amounts to one note - then you are ok. The problem is trying to draw the line between the two.

Look at for example NI's Guitar Rig 2 - the sounds of the Vox AC30 or Marshall Stacks are there, but the names aren't used (though it's obvious which amps they are copying).

I couldn't tell you the answer outside of England and Wales though

divonic · Post by **divonic** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:02 pm

If you sell them then yes I would say it is illegal. If you include the synth name and the words preset in the file name then IMO it is still illegal but at least you are admiting that you didn't make it.

Now if you are talking about preset patterens then I would definitally say that it is illegal. as for using a synth's preset patteren in a song. I don't know if that is illegal or not but when I hear a song that has a synth preset patteren in it I am very disapointed with the artist. (i've noticed a number of songs that have, right out of the box, Korg EA-1 patterens in them)

minimal · Post by **minimal** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:26 pm

divonic wrote:when I hear a song that has a synth preset patteren in it I am very disapointed with the artist. (i've noticed a number of songs that have, right out of the box, Korg EA-1 patterens in them)

W O R D

Sartori · Post by **Sartori** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:13 pm

divonic wrote:...when I hear a song that has a synth preset patteren in it I am very disapointed with the artist. (i've noticed a number of songs that have, right out of the box, Korg EA-1 patterens in them)

If it works musically, it shouldn't be a problem.

Speaking of which, this is a logical extension of the same principle. What if you use a preset in a song - could the synth maker come along and demand royalties if it becomes a hit?

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:08 pm

Legalities aside, I don't think it would be profitable.

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:14 pm

it is indeed illegal to sell sampled presets from hardware, most that i've seen anyway. the manuals have user licenses just like software. i'd say it would be especially frowned upon with any kind of ROMpler based synth that is playing samples. and less so with a purely synth-based instrument where you are in total control of the sounds via the knobs and sliders. and either way, it's lame.