what is 14 bit absolute?
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DeadlyKungFu
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DeadlyKungFu
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MIDI is a 32kbaud standard, which is 8 bits of payload data (or multiples thereof). So I'm assuming that 8 bits are transmitted regardless.
With 14 bits there's 16,384 values that can be sent while 128 (0-127) values can be done in 7 bits, so I'm not feeling that the term '14 bit' represents the number of bits to encode the shaft value, there's something else going on.
Dunno, maybe tonight when I get home I'll load up midi-ox and play around with it, I was too tired last night.
curiouser and curiouser...
With 14 bits there's 16,384 values that can be sent while 128 (0-127) values can be done in 7 bits, so I'm not feeling that the term '14 bit' represents the number of bits to encode the shaft value, there's something else going on.
Dunno, maybe tonight when I get home I'll load up midi-ox and play around with it, I was too tired last night.
curiouser and curiouser...
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Lo-Fi Massahkah
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I think...
...that if you consider cutoff range of a filter plug to be like 0-18000 hz and assign that to a regular 7bit (0-127), then you're actually stepping 140 hz (18000/128) at a time. If you have a controller sending 14 bit, you'll be stepping only 1.09 hz (18000/16384) at a time.
Since VSTs actually have higher resolution than the standard midi CC range of 128, they might benefit from 14bit controllers. I know that on the BCR you can choose to have the knobs working as either 7 or 14 bit. To be honest, though - I haven't been able to get it to work.
In Live 5 you had the choice of picking what mode to work in when doing the midi assignments, I haven't found this in the new Live 6 midi assignment pane, though.
Still curious,
Mikael
...that if you consider cutoff range of a filter plug to be like 0-18000 hz and assign that to a regular 7bit (0-127), then you're actually stepping 140 hz (18000/128) at a time. If you have a controller sending 14 bit, you'll be stepping only 1.09 hz (18000/16384) at a time.
Since VSTs actually have higher resolution than the standard midi CC range of 128, they might benefit from 14bit controllers. I know that on the BCR you can choose to have the knobs working as either 7 or 14 bit. To be honest, though - I haven't been able to get it to work.
In Live 5 you had the choice of picking what mode to work in when doing the midi assignments, I haven't found this in the new Live 6 midi assignment pane, though.
Still curious,
Mikael
You wanna know about midi,huh, do ya, punk , huh ?
then read this by Peter Kirn, specifically the section titled "Behind the Scenes: Anatomy of a MIDI Message"
http://makezine.com/07/primer/
after you have read that you will notice that he refers to the first data byte being 127 values. that is a 7 bit number , or 1111111 in binary.
you can imagine that a 14 bit number would give a lot more control
11111111111111 gives us a fine control of 16383 values instead of that crappy 127 value nonsense.
Of course to get those extra 7 bits we havetosteal them from somewhere - so controllers 32-63 are the LSB of controllers 0-31
pitch bend is 14 bit but generally only the "Most significant bit" is kept by hosts and instruments so we generally get to use it as a crappy 7 bit thing.
then read this by Peter Kirn, specifically the section titled "Behind the Scenes: Anatomy of a MIDI Message"
http://makezine.com/07/primer/
after you have read that you will notice that he refers to the first data byte being 127 values. that is a 7 bit number , or 1111111 in binary.
you can imagine that a 14 bit number would give a lot more control
11111111111111 gives us a fine control of 16383 values instead of that crappy 127 value nonsense.
Of course to get those extra 7 bits we havetosteal them from somewhere - so controllers 32-63 are the LSB of controllers 0-31
pitch bend is 14 bit but generally only the "Most significant bit" is kept by hosts and instruments so we generally get to use it as a crappy 7 bit thing.
Last edited by Angstrom on Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yeah the stuff I was reading seemed to be saying that the standard is actually 10 bit, but 1 is an on message, another is an off msg and one is a status bit, leaving the 7 for control - and something about 2 to the power of 7 = 128 hence that number
I seemed to be able to get the jist of what 14 bit itself is, but where I'm still unclear is how a small knob on an ABSOLUTE controller (like a UC33 - although it doesnt appear the UC33 supports 14 bit anyway, so that's kind of irrelevant - but say another absolute controller with similar knobs) could make use of 16383 values when after all just the distance fat fingers can move a small knob at once is still going to be a bit of an increment jump
I wondered if maybe something like a Jog wheel would be an example, but then realised even a jog wheel is endless so it would be relative as well
this stuff can be a real headache!
I seemed to be able to get the jist of what 14 bit itself is, but where I'm still unclear is how a small knob on an ABSOLUTE controller (like a UC33 - although it doesnt appear the UC33 supports 14 bit anyway, so that's kind of irrelevant - but say another absolute controller with similar knobs) could make use of 16383 values when after all just the distance fat fingers can move a small knob at once is still going to be a bit of an increment jump
I wondered if maybe something like a Jog wheel would be an example, but then realised even a jog wheel is endless so it would be relative as well
this stuff can be a real headache!
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DeadlyKungFu
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I just didn't know what the standard was, I assumed it was more than 8 bit and people were saying 7 bit was faster.
The standard is 7 bits, 14 bit is for more fine detail, or when you don't need faster response.
Relative sends midi up or down commands
Absolute sends a specific value.
For normal bit depth the center value is 63/64.
For 14 bit the 'center value' is 8191/8192.
just thinking out loud, getting it hashed out.
The standard is 7 bits, 14 bit is for more fine detail, or when you don't need faster response.
Relative sends midi up or down commands
Absolute sends a specific value.
For normal bit depth the center value is 63/64.
For 14 bit the 'center value' is 8191/8192.
just thinking out loud, getting it hashed out.
Re: what is 14 bit absolute?
Hello. Just resurrecting a thread from 2006. NBD. I am very dumb. Can someone tell me how to enable 14 bit mode for anything? I have a faderfox EC4 which is capable of 14bit messages, but I can't find how to enable this on ableton's side. Thank you!!
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Shift Gorden
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Re: what is 14 bit absolute?
edit - double post.
Last edited by Tone Deft on Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Re: what is 14 bit absolute?
when you open the midi mapping mode (ctrl-m) there are ANOTHER set of controls at the VERY BOTTOM LEFT of the Live GUI to select 14 bit high resolution mode etc, lots of options there. too bad this is so poorly hidden.
"Ableton Live supports high resolution MIDI. Simply use the MIDI map function as per usual, but send a pair of high resolution MIDI bytes one after the other. The high byte is sent first, directly followed by the low byte. If the bytes are of the correct MIDI controller and channel pair, then Ableton Live will recognise this as a high resolution MIDI control message.
This option can also be manually selected by mapping a parameter to a MIDI controller in Live, and then selecting the MIDI controller in the MIDI Mapping Mode screen. In the bar on the very bottom left hand side, a menu allows the selection of a variety of MIDI mapping modes, including "Absolute 14-bit"."
15 years of posting in the same thread...
this site says:Shift Gorden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:37 pmThis help?
http://little-scale.blogspot.com/2016/0 ... -midi.html
"Ableton Live supports high resolution MIDI. Simply use the MIDI map function as per usual, but send a pair of high resolution MIDI bytes one after the other. The high byte is sent first, directly followed by the low byte. If the bytes are of the correct MIDI controller and channel pair, then Ableton Live will recognise this as a high resolution MIDI control message.
This option can also be manually selected by mapping a parameter to a MIDI controller in Live, and then selecting the MIDI controller in the MIDI Mapping Mode screen. In the bar on the very bottom left hand side, a menu allows the selection of a variety of MIDI mapping modes, including "Absolute 14-bit"."
15 years of posting in the same thread...
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Re: what is 14 bit absolute?
Holy shit! I would have never noticed that. Jesus! Well, thank you for the reply, it felt like a long shot. Just for posterity, here is what you have to do:
Assign a parameter normally. Click on something else. Click BACK on the parameter you just assigned (or any of them), and then the option to change modes (for all mappings) will be in the bottom status bar. Very strange!!! Glad to know how to do it nonetheless.
It kind of makes sense that this option is hidden however, because when you set up your encoder properly, twiddling the knob to assign it will automatically set it in ableton to the correct mode. I'm still experimenting with all this, however. So far, 14bit mode isn't behaving how I would like it to...
Assign a parameter normally. Click on something else. Click BACK on the parameter you just assigned (or any of them), and then the option to change modes (for all mappings) will be in the bottom status bar. Very strange!!! Glad to know how to do it nonetheless.
It kind of makes sense that this option is hidden however, because when you set up your encoder properly, twiddling the knob to assign it will automatically set it in ableton to the correct mode. I'm still experimenting with all this, however. So far, 14bit mode isn't behaving how I would like it to...