DJing with ableton ?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:25 am

Hi all

I dont want to "break" your joy with ableton and the DJ side but I tried to configure ableton in a way to do dying ...

The main goal was to do the same as my actual DJ set : Mixer DJM 300 (Pioneer) and 2 CD-100S (Pioneer too !) ...

I used for this test a P4 2,4 GHz - 512 RAM - 80 GB HD (ATA133), Aardvark Audio Card with
ASIO drivers and for the controlling a Nord Modular from Clavia (allows to configure a max of controls)

After 2 nights of configuring and searching, here are my results :

The minus points :
- quality of warp : for me it is not as good as what I can get with my CD-100S.
I explain : I put 2 fixed markers (the green one), one at the beginning and one
at the end ... I tested with my own songs so I know the tempo is always the same
(electronic stuff) ... If my song is originally at 142 bpm and I decided to play
at 137, there are a lot of artefacts in the sound (more than with CD-100S).
Maybe it is because I only put 2 markers ? if smbdy can answer ...
- it takes time to configure all songs you have with markers stuff (manually work)
- EQ : I didnt find a eq settings that sounds like the DJM300 ...
I explain : my DJM300 has +12db and -26 settings ... not possible to reproduce
that with the internal plugs Eq3 or Eq4 ... Eq3 was the most useful but it allow
only +6db
- controls with the nordlead ... I expected to have (for eq) the 0 db at 12 oclock
but NO : the 0 db is at something like 4 oclock which is not really precise
- crossfader : not as smooth as a "real one" + little gaps in the audio if doing it
quickly
- effects of chorus/flanging : good but not as the one that is on my CD-100 ...

The plus points :
- no loosing time for cueing ...
- beats always in sync (if your markers are right placed)
- erosion plug add great "filter" facility
- ability to do remix easily ...

I am wondering if it is not best to use live a as pure live session with small clips and doing a live set (creating news songs from different little clips) and not a common DJ set ...

Can somebody tell me if the quality of audio is getting better when using lots of warp markers (but this will represent lot of work to configure all your songs ...)

Thanks for your appreciations and point of views !!!

bye

PS : I really think live is real good good product but maybe not for doing pure dj sets ...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:41 pm

so are all DJ still sleeping ?

does the quality of audio improved while you put more and more warp markers ???

what do you think of using live for djing ??? do you use the included eq plugs ???

thanks for the response
bye

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:48 pm

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6265

practice makes perfect

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:10 pm

More warp markers: NOT necessary. If a track is of electronic origin and the tempo is constant, you only need 1 (at the 1st downbeat). Drag every 12th time marker, starting at 13, and by the time you reach the end of the song, it should be dead on...

Audio Quality: try the different algorithms. I like "tone" for the least artifacty of the 3 warp algs, but if you want a CLEAN sound, use repitch (it will make your songs out of tune, and more like spinning vinyl).

EQ: EQ 3 will be the best you can get with the Live EQs, but look for a VST EQ that will do the trick...

Take a look at page 5 of Spirals Thread reference for a LONG post from Digitalrust. It explains a set he did recently.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:26 pm

thanks for your replies ...

for the marker thing : I was sure about the no need of multiple markers for electronic stuff

also for the EQ3 : nothing better ...

I will try with the different algorithms ...

thanks !

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:38 pm

for eq and realtime mixing, why not just rely on your external DJ mixer and route the audio channels into it?

Use live for playback and effects.

That is how I am trying to set it up.

rob.

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:58 pm

sup there rob...
nice to see some nubreakers around here.
still enjoying your r:evolution mix...

and now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:53 pm

thanks man. I'm glad you are still digging it.

I kinda thought it was a little too static for the first 30 minutes or so (this was after letting it sit for a few weeks and then relistening to it)...so I'm doing another one. I think I am going to call it "re-entry". I'm just gonna go for it.

Yeah, I am interested in this stuff. Digital Rust knows. I even DJ'd a bit at one of his parties with Traktor...but DJing with live seems interesting.

The only real issue is a user interface one. Traktor is built with a DJing metaphor in mind.

Live makes you twist that DJ expectation based on experience into its paradigm...which can make your head hurt on the simple things...

like the "nudging of a track" concept. In Traktor, you can simply nudge a track and then lock it so it stays tight (VERY tight) with the track you are mixing with.

In the Live application, the using of warp markers seems kludgy and not very intuitive for someone who comes from a DJ background.

Its work.

But most things worthwhile are.

rob.

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:58 pm

yeah theres a lot more pre gig work to be done using live...
but the results are so satisfying....
right now im running 4 tracks of loops with effects
plus 2 drum machine vsts via plogue, for 6 total tracks...
just need to add some more midi control...
its just too much damn fun.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:50 am

rob

hi !

I total agree with your way of using the "normal" mixer but what when you go mixing to a club ? bring your own mixer (one more stuff to bring) or use the one of the club but mean to disconnect what is on ????

I already think about this but for mixing in clubs I am still wondering ...

thanks for replying !

have a nice live day

bye

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:59 pm

well, I am of the camp that believes:

1 - the mixer is part of the instrument that you play. Ergonomics are VERY important and should be consistent.

2 - I wanna show up and just plug a left and a right master audio out into the master sound system. I do NOT want to try to hook my stuff up to multiple ins and try to work around various house sound systems.

3 - I want to control all audio quality (hum eliminators, balanced cables, firewire interface, DJ mixer, etc.) as much as I can.

So - you bring a laptop and you get a SKB DJ Capsule (like I have), rack everything in it.

Then when you show up, you just need to set your stuff up and run your audio cables out to the master sound. That's it...no worries.

That's my philosophy anyway.

(btw, it is still lighter than carrying a 100lbs of vinyl....

)

rob.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:21 am

thanks rob

nice cause I was thinking of this during the week end and quite decided to do exactly what you said

bring everything and settle it in a case so you just have to plug 220 V and a pair of cinch ... I think it is more live oriented and you are right !!!

thanks for the info of the SKB .. I will take a look !
bye

signifier · Post by **signifier** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:07 pm

i haven't ever mixed with cd decks, but one thing i've been getting live to do pretty sweetly recently is to deliberately tweak warp markers so that two or three tracks kick drums phase slightly. it reproduces the old vinyl trick which was always really tricky to pull off consistently. that's the advantage i think of the warp marker set-up, you can both get things really tight, or deliberately program in a bit of "analog" sloppiness..

best

ACR

DJing with ableton ?

DJing with ableton ?

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