Has Live gotten too complex?...

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:13 pm

nolus wrote:Best to stay of the weed when your setting up your racks though - can get very confusing

Exactly what I was afraid of

I used to be able to enjoy my communion with Live under any circumstance. Now, with all these racks and layers and menus to wade thru I fear I'll get bogged down and have to open the manual for the first time ever... or spend many hours viewing video tutorials and readin "how to" books just to be able to come to grips with what used to be my soul mate. A big buzz killer.

In a parallel dimension Live would have evolved along it's lineage and more in keeping with it's tradition as a ground-breaking audio manipulation tool by incorporating and refining features such as Melodyne's ground-breaking technology and not by adding "pay-for-play" synths and samplers and what not that we already have scores of. Who knows what new universes could have been discovered had evolution taken another path.

musick · Post by **musick** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:13 pm

Life always has been complex

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:23 pm

"more complex"? Sure, if you want it to be

"too complex"? Nuh-uh. No sirrie bob.

My "live Live" rig contains a number of Operator instances for bass/pad improv bits.

In Live 5 this set was 35 tracks.... now it's 12. .... 12! I have stacked all the bass sounds in one Group that can be switched by me or via clip envelopes, same with the pads.

Also, all the midi assignments have been collected in one left-side panel. Very handy for editing, and it greatly simplifies the process of editing your assignments.

I could go on - there have been a number of feature additions, natch', but they more or less all work to reduce workflow complexity. The only thing that has made my Live experience more complex is multi-core support

I now load Live up a great deal more!

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:18 pm

Its become to complex as a live performance instrument and Its on its way to becoming bloatware so by version seven or eight its as complex as Logic ever was. Then again if you ask this question here what sort of answers do you expect to get. A brand new user purchasing today will not be able to use it like a new user of version three and even four, a read of the manual is a must now unlike earlier versions. Users who have been around since earlier vesrions should really understand that.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:26 pm

I can't even believe this is being considered. Everything can be done just as simply as ever. The new user need not be bogged down with complexities to get things running at all.

Is triggering clips more complex? Importing loops? Adding effects? using sends? midi mapping? no.

It's all just as simple. Has the addition of more effects made things too complex? no. if you don't understand beat repeat or dynamic tube, you don't have to use them.

Has racks made things more complex? no. You absolutely don't have to touch them if you're unsure about them as a new user, and you can still make fine music without them.

Even if someone is completely new to midi, and doesn't get it yet, they can just use audio like in version 1. Drag loops, record some tracks.

Nothing is standing in the way. You don't have to wade through a bunch of midi tracks with racks piled on in order to find our nice simple audio loop track. You don't have to enter an answer to a skill-testing ableton routing riddle to enable record. It's the same.

Same same but different. more possibilities.more fun. come have joy with us.

grb

buzzcock · Post by **buzzcock** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:39 pm

Personally, I wish ableton made all of the software I use.
I just gel with their thought process-- 99 times out of 100, the features and functions are where I expect them to be, and Live responds the way I expect it to.

Live updates never consist of new features merely tacked on. There are always workflow enhancements that integrate the new features and make the overall experience more enjoyable. The compexity of the program is so scalable-- as simple or intricate as you choose.

I like the direction Live is going; keep up the good work.

philippe n · Post by **philippe n** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:44 pm

i don't think live is complex.
Live 6 (beta) is even easier and faster (for me)!
there are a lot of free simple daw , less complex and less complete than Live.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:46 pm

nope, not at all, no way, huh?, your kidding right?

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:59 pm

mercyplease wrote:Its become too complex... and It's on it's way to becoming bloatware...

I agree with this and I applaud Anubis for not drinking the KoolAid and having the courage to go against the grain.
Why can't we just keep things simple? Version 4.1.4 was the epitome of Live. I'm not looking forward to another version of Reaktor either.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:01 pm

I guess no one is forcing anyone to upgrade here... afaik it's all still voluntary

One could email Ableton and ask for a downgrade. And I heard Noisetonepause has a copy of Reaktor 3 for sale, simpleton.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:18 pm

3 I wouldn't sell cos I want to keep it; 4 I wouldn't sell cos I like to think of myself as a good person.

I, too, do think that Live is getting more complex. I'm still quite fast on it, though, but the Live 3 workflow was nice for me... except for simplistic routing options. And umm. Ah, I'll just upgrade...

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:25 pm

noisetonepause wrote:3 I wouldn't sell cos I want to keep it; 4 I wouldn't sell cos I like to think of myself as a good person.

I, too, do think that Live is getting more complex. I'm still quite fast on it, though, but the Live 3 workflow was nice for me... except for simplistic routing options. And umm. Ah, I'll just upgrade...

while you're at it, you should upgrade reaktor 4 to 5.

R4 sucks monkey balls.
R5 rules. R5 doesn't suck, it gets sucked. by R4.

R4 sucks R5's genital junk.

seriously, R5 is so much snappier and more stable. It's night and day. When I had R4 open, I would just pray it wouldn't crash my host for long enough to bounce something. boo.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:27 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:seriously, R5 is so much snappier and more stable. It's night and day. When I had R4 open, I would just pray it wouldn't crash my host for long enough to bounce something. boo.

I've already told the brother a buncha times

It's a pretty pricy upgrade though, and if one had vowed to never give NI any more cash...?

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:01 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:seriously, R5 is so much snappier and more stable. It's night and day. When I had R4 open, I would just pray it wouldn't crash my host for long enough to bounce something. boo.

Not a penny from these pockets to a music software company run by a guy with a degree in management. Not one.

/discussion about ni

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:14 pm

no!

live is still too simple imho.