Has Live gotten too complex?...

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:59 am

pepezabala wrote: I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.
.

Live lite?

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:46 am

forge wrote:
pepezabala wrote: I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.
.
Live lite?

you are probably right.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:06 am

pepezabala wrote:but honestly, Live 6 is the first version that made a little confused.

I could explain live 3 to my mom and she would get it without ever having worked with digital audio.

If I would show live 6 to someone who never worked with live, I believe that only the huge number of different features would confuse you.

I like that all those features exist in the ableton way, but I also already thought that there should be a "beginners edition" or "beginners mode", something like live 3, but with mp3 support, controller-surfaces, freeze and some other stuff that came with the newer versions. But without midi-instruments, racks, sampler and operator.

I think there are lots of people out there that just need to arrange audiofiles. I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.

Now you might say "let them use garageband" - but in my opinion the gui of garageband sucks a lot, and live's gui is excellent for it's easy-to-understand-approach. And garageband does not have something like session view.

maybe a custom version of live for every customer that buys it. you specify which features you want and then they add it all up on a cash register and ask you to swipe your card?

come on they can't possibly make a version with less features that still pleases everyone right? the only way to please everyone is to give it more features. it's only logical. you're almost asking them to take features out AND please everyone.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:46 am

Johnisfaster wrote:
pepezabala wrote:but honestly, Live 6 is the first version that made a little confused.

I could explain live 3 to my mom and she would get it without ever having worked with digital audio.

If I would show live 6 to someone who never worked with live, I believe that only the huge number of different features would confuse you.

I like that all those features exist in the ableton way, but I also already thought that there should be a "beginners edition" or "beginners mode", something like live 3, but with mp3 support, controller-surfaces, freeze and some other stuff that came with the newer versions. But without midi-instruments, racks, sampler and operator.

I think there are lots of people out there that just need to arrange audiofiles. I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.

Now you might say "let them use garageband" - but in my opinion the gui of garageband sucks a lot, and live's gui is excellent for it's easy-to-understand-approach. And garageband does not have something like session view.
maybe a custom version of live for every customer that buys it. you specify which features you want and then they add it all up on a cash register and ask you to swipe your card?

come on they can't possibly make a version with less features that still pleases everyone right? the only way to please everyone is to give it more features. it's only logical. you're almost asking them to take features out AND please everyone.

sounds like FLStudio!

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:58 am

Has Live gotten too complex?

Only if you let it. Use as much or as little as you want.

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:22 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:
pepezabala wrote:but honestly, Live 6 is the first version that made a little confused.

I could explain live 3 to my mom and she would get it without ever having worked with digital audio.

If I would show live 6 to someone who never worked with live, I believe that only the huge number of different features would confuse you.

I like that all those features exist in the ableton way, but I also already thought that there should be a "beginners edition" or "beginners mode", something like live 3, but with mp3 support, controller-surfaces, freeze and some other stuff that came with the newer versions. But without midi-instruments, racks, sampler and operator.

I think there are lots of people out there that just need to arrange audiofiles. I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.

Now you might say "let them use garageband" - but in my opinion the gui of garageband sucks a lot, and live's gui is excellent for it's easy-to-understand-approach. And garageband does not have something like session view.
maybe a custom version of live for every customer that buys it. you specify which features you want and then they add it all up on a cash register and ask you to swipe your card?

come on they can't possibly make a version with less features that still pleases everyone right? the only way to please everyone is to give it more features. it's only logical. you're almost asking them to take features out AND please everyone.

it's not about pleasing everyone. It's about a software that is easy to understand and lets you arrange audiofiles as live 3 did.

somebody who has lots of field-recordings and music and wants to mix that for a dance-piece. Somebody doing podcasts. Somebody doing a radioplay etc.

Those people do not need operator or sampler - and therefore it's good that those are add-ons to buy. But they neither need simpler, impulse, and they do not need racks. But when they start using live they will have those features sitting in front of them and distract them from what they originally needed to do.

forge pointed at live lite, and he's right with that, but live lite has been designed as an appetizer for the full version - you can use only a certain amount of plugins at one time etc. - and thus it has not been designed as an easy to use software for editing and arranging audiofiles.

Don't get me wrong, I personally love to play around with all of the new features and I enjoy to learn how to use and abuse them. And I will happily pay for that. And obviously most people that spend their time on this forum are hungry for new features - a slicer, more midi-plugins, videoclips in session view, just to name some of the most wanted.

But I think that there also is a need (= a market) for a live-version that has less features. Just because the ableton GUI is so much better than Garageband or all the others. Just for all those people that do NOT spend their time on this forum

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:43 pm

pepezabala wrote:...but I also already thought that there should be a "beginners edition" or "beginners mode", something like live 3, but with mp3 support, controller-surfaces, freeze and some other stuff that came with the newer versions. But without midi-instruments, racks, sampler and operator.

I think there are lots of people out there that just need to arrange audiofiles. I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.

Hey I just had a brainstorm! Live could run like a game like like Quake or something... where once you pass a certain level then you're allowed to proceed to the next level. It would start off as a "Lite" version at a reduced fee, then when you get to the next level it prompts you for your credit card and unlocks some additional features, annd so on.
You would start off with like a version 3 for $99 then pay $99 for each "level" up to ver.6. I'd call it the "pay as you go" instrument. That way people who are not worthy of the advanced features(like me

) wouldn't be able to bitch about how hard it is to use and how much money they spent on something they can't comprehend. Of course, the newbies would be restricted to a beginner's forum so they couldn't pollute the advanced forum(this one) with questions like "How comes I don't hear no sound?" Good ideas yes?

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:25 pm

simpleton wrote:
pepezabala wrote:...but I also already thought that there should be a "beginners edition" or "beginners mode", something like live 3, but with mp3 support, controller-surfaces, freeze and some other stuff that came with the newer versions. But without midi-instruments, racks, sampler and operator.

I think there are lots of people out there that just need to arrange audiofiles. I know people who are working in theatre, dance etc. and ask me for a tool for arranging their music. A "reduced" version of live would be perfect for them.
Hey I just had a brainstorm! Live could run like a game like like Quake or something... where once you pass a certain level then you're allowed to proceed to the next level. It would start off as a "Lite" version at a reduced fee, then when you get to the next level it prompts you for your credit card and unlocks some additional features, annd so on.
You would start off with like a version 3 for $99 then pay $99 for each "level" up to ver.6. I'd call it the "pay as you go" instrument. That way people who are not worthy of the advanced features(like me ) wouldn't be able to bitch about how hard it is to use and how much money they spent on something they can't comprehend. Of course, the newbies would be restricted to a beginner's forum so they couldn't pollute the advanced forum(this one) with questions like "How comes I don't hear no sound?" Good ideas yes?

People would be asking for cheats all the time. they already do

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:38 pm

I don't get the RACKS personally and I never did get my head around the follow action so to me - it's a bit complicated when it comes to that kind fo stuff

but I find the program relatively easy to get my point across

nothings hidden or super duper secret - click this then that

but I don't understand how to use RACKS and I couldn't tell you how to even start with follow action

but then - I don't use that stuff

Praetorius · Post by **Praetorius** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:58 pm

I love Live...and can't wait till 6! i don't find it to be bloated at all or complex. I'm a hardware guy (soft synths EEEVIL!) and love how nicely Ableton plays with my gear and actually enhances it!

Can't wait for instrument racks though. I'm using a keyboard setup with keyboard splits. The top octave triggers audio loops and such. I like how I can quickly change what key triggers what in my splits. With instrument racks, I'll be able to take that same technique and put it on steroids. My synths are very happy beings since Live

glu · Post by **glu** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:33 pm

hambone1 wrote:Has Live gotten too complex?

Only if you let it. Use as much or as little as you want.

or has the userbase become too stupid??

sorry, couldn't resist....

Has Live gotten too complex?...

Elegant