Choosing a laptop: Macbook vs. Sony Vaio

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:16 pm

My last three computers have been, in order: Dell, Mac, Vaio.

The Dell was a desktop, and it was a lemon. Bad power supply right out of the box, wouldn't turn on, then all downhill from there.

Made the switch to Mac, got the G4 17" Powerbook. No problems with it, other than the realization that all my favorite software was PC only. Sold it to my buddy and got the Vaio.

Had my Vaio laptop for almost three years now, never had a problem other than a couple spyware/virus things. Other than that it has been rock solid for music, I have no complaints at all other than the dismal battery life (it's the big 16" model, so I expected this). And BTW, my former Mac's DVD drive went up a few months after I sold it.

So what does this all prove? Nothing! I firmly believe computer buying is half a voodoo crapshoot, you might get lucky you might not. All computers have problems - Macs, Sony, Dell, HP, etc... That's just the way it is.

I'm looking into getting a new laptop in the next few months. Most importantly I'd say hold off until the Core2 Duo's become established, as they are only just now rolling out. I'd also agree with the person who stressed HD speed, do not go 4200 rpm. 7200 rpm is the ideal, but 5400 is almost as good, and will give longer battery life and less heat.

HTH!

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:20 pm

I've gone both ways, too. I use both now. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

It's just a box. There are good ones and bad ones on both sides of the fence.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:22 pm

I was also tempted by the Macbook since I could get it with 2 G RAM much cheaper then Sony. The problem is that integrated graphic Intel which by pc you find only in the cheapest- garden variety of notebooks.
Unfortunately I was never able to get any info here since the forum is just full of Mac fanboys with no clues, other then the hype and lots of love and passion.
Would like to hear from serious user if the better OS compensate for cheap ass graphics. Otherwise Mac Pro would be the only serious choice.
But I dont want anything bigger then 12-13 inches and unfortunately Mac gave up the 12/13 for the Pro versions.
Sony might be more expensive but more reliable choice, junk software ?, easy to get rid off.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:35 pm

rikhyray wrote:I was also tempted by the Macbook since I could get it with 2 G RAM much cheaper then Sony. The problem is that integrated graphic Intel which by pc you find only in the cheapest- garden variety of notebooks.
Unfortunately I was never able to get any info here since the forum is just full of Mac fanboys with no clues, other then the hype and lots of love and passion.
Would like to hear from serious user if the better OS compensate for cheap ass graphics. Otherwise Mac Pro would be the only serious choice.
But I dont want anything bigger then 12-13 inches and unfortunately Mac gave up the 12/13 for the Pro versions.
Sony might be more expensive but more reliable choice, junk software ?, easy to get rid off.

I don't know. Does making a really good living using a computer (not fixing them) make me a clueless fanboy or a serious user? Seems you are mistaking very happy users with blind followers, but I digress.

Unless you want to play games or VJ on your rig, the Macbook is a great option. The video card won't effect processor performance as long as you get match paired ram sticks (2 x 1 gb). Personally, I play WoW, so I will be getting a MB Pro, but otherwise, it would be Macbooks all the way.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:03 pm

Would like to hear from serious user if the better OS compensate for cheap ass graphics. Otherwise Mac Pro would be the only serious choice.

"Better OS" is purely an opinion. Both OS's are nice, I personally like XP because it's more tweakable, plus I like the software available for it more (as well as the many free vst's which are PC only).

XP's only real downfall is that going online is more dangerous. But while part of that is MS's fault, part of that is also that troublemakers aren't going to waste their time on a platform that's less than 10% of the world's computers. They want to do major damage, so they'll always go for the bigger target. If Macs had even half of the world's computer useage, they'd have a lot more problems with viruses and spyware!

Other than that it's really not about the OS at all, it's about the programs you use with it. An OS is just something I have to deal with when I'm not making music, I really could give a crap about it or how pretty it is. In fact, I like an OS to be as out of the way as possible. And again, XP is more tweakable in this regard...I keep mine stark!

I would steer clear of integrated graphics, regardless of platform personally.

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:13 pm

I just want to know why Apple is always so slow...

You can already get core 2 duo laptops from Dell. I just priced one around $1500. Yes, it only had 1 gig of RAM, and an 80 gig 5,400 rpm HDD, but if I bought a macbook, I would most likely replace the HD anyway, and RAM from Crucial is a bit $$$ too.

As "cool" as apple is, and I want to go with it basically just for logic, their marketing and business strategies are a bit bunk. Sure, they work well to sell items, but I don't think they really care for their userbase much.

Jobs is probably really not that nice a guy, and my estimation of Gates skyrocketed when he left to steer the Gates foundation full time.

What has Jobs done but make us a more rampantly materialistic society?

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:28 pm

anti-banausic wrote:What has Jobs done but make us a more rampantly materialistic society?

1.Helped make computers accessable for the not-too-tech-savy such as mysself. If my industry (advertising) was based around Windows, i would be selling shoes or shoveling dirt. (That's just as much a comment about my inability to trouble shoot as it is a comment about lack-of-need-to with Macs)

2.Helped direct the modern Desktop-centric GUI we all know and love.

3.Pioneered putting "i" in front of every God-damn product know to man (iChow dogfood; iWipe toilet paper; iFall lager; etc)

Seriously. You think JOBS made us more materialistic? Wow. I don't even think THAT highly of his influence.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:04 pm

anti-banausic wrote:I just want to know why Apple is always so slow...

You can already get core 2 duo laptops from Dell. I just priced one around $1500. Yes, it only had 1 gig of RAM, and an 80 gig 5,400 rpm HDD, but if I bought a macbook, I would most likely replace the HD anyway, and RAM from Crucial is a bit $$$ too.

As "cool" as apple is, and I want to go with it basically just for logic, their marketing and business strategies are a bit bunk. Sure, they work well to sell items, but I don't think they really care for their userbase much.

Jobs is probably really not that nice a guy, and my estimation of Gates skyrocketed when he left to steer the Gates foundation full time.

What has Jobs done but make us a more rampantly materialistic society?

The answer lies in understanding simple business strategy.

You have to remember that Apple is only a small percentage of the worldwide computer market.

In the business world, one advantage of being a small company means you can be quicker and more reactive in the marketplace.... (ie it's easier to steer a small boat than a big oil tanker).... but being small has disadvantages.

One disadvantage is that larger companies often have economies of scale. (price/cost gains associated with large volume production) Dell makes a lot more computers than Apple, and therefore can afford to sell their product cheaper because they make up for lost revenue per unit by selling higher volume.

Apple faces unique difficulty because they can't achieve the same economies of scale as their larger competitors. They must cover their costs and profits through a smaller amount of unit sales.... which increases the cost to the consumer. They must also watch their production and inventories more closely, because they are less likely to be able to afford to have unsold inventory lying around. This is one of the reasons Apple tries never to tip their hand with upcoming product releases. If they told people that the new iPod was coming out next month, their current iPod sales would stagnate... leaving unsold inventory buildup. Because Apple has higher costs associated with their products, they simply are not in the same position as a larger company when it comes to selling old inventory at discounts.

As for the marketing:

Dell would be considered a Cost Leadership stratrgy in business class. They use economies of scale to create products which generally cost less than the competition. Therefore, they are using price as the primary draw for customers. If you look at a Dell computer vs. a Sony or HP, etc... you'll notice that, realistically, there isn't much different. Mabe some styling differences. But primarily, Dell has tried to leverage the Direct Sales model to undercut competition by avoiding the retail stores which markup prices.

Apple would be considered a Differentiation strategy in business class. They focus on making their products appear unique in the marketplace. With a differentiation strategy, a company often focuses on a market niche. For Apple, this niche has primarily been the creative arts industry (video & music). They target their products at people who are willing to pay a premium price for a differentiated product.

Of course, any time a product claims to be differentiated, opinions will fly regarding the validity of the claims. And so, the Mac vs. PC war ensues.

Anyway, your question was why are they so slow? I don't know for sure. Maybe Apple made a deal with Intel where they guarantee purchasing a certain number of Core Duo chips for laptops, and they have not sold all the units yet? So rather than start selling Core 2 Duo now, they wait until they have sold more of their stock? Who knows.

Per Boysen · Post by **Per Boysen** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:40 pm

rsagevik wrote:I bought my laptop from Zepto, and I`m super happy!
Highly recommended.

Wow - me too! This is the first time I hear anyone talking about Zepto! I'm happy with the PC and Zepto seemed a good company. I picked up a great insurance very cheap from them.

I bought the Zepto pc almost a year ago and had it been today I would go with a Macbook, no doubt. All my favorite audio applications except one (Mobius) are OSX only. I already have a G5 and a G4 poerbook so the Zepto is only used for gigs (no Internet and no XP upgrades - just plain XP for audio)

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:48 pm

While I see your points subterFUse, and agree that this all makes some sort of logical sense, my point continues.

I have always been painted as an idealist, and this makes business models difficult for me to swallow, and why I have steered clear of business my entire life.

This marketing is bullshit from a philosophical standpoint. It is another example of a corporation milking money out of the population of the world and getting rich because of it. If Apple cared so much about it's user base, they would give information out ahead of time, and they could take a slight loss on their old inventory. But instead, the loss really gets thrown onto the end-user who buys and gets screwed two months down the road. And don't complain that perhaps Apple would go under. Though I don't know for sure, I am willing to bet that the higher ups have rather nice salaries.

There is always a point where one should step back and ask "How did we get here (to this moment)". It is too easy to get swept into the current of life, and forget to ask why. And, honestly, it pisses me off how some corporations work.

Especially, when you hear all the complaining on this forum about how people feel Ableton is trying to milk them of their money. Look at Apple.

All this from someone who would like one, but only so I can use Logic. However, I have done without for long enough, I think I can keep going.

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:19 pm

anti-banausic wrote:While I see your points subterFUse, and agree that this all makes some sort of logical sense, my point continues.

I have always been painted as an idealist, and this makes business models difficult for me to swallow, and why I have steered clear of business my entire life.

This marketing is bullshit from a philosophical standpoint. It is another example of a corporation milking money out of the population of the world and getting rich because of it. If Apple cared so much about it's user base, they would give information out ahead of time, and they could take a slight loss on their old inventory. But instead, the loss really gets thrown onto the end-user who buys and gets screwed two months down the road. And don't complain that perhaps Apple would go under. Though I don't know for sure, I am willing to bet that the higher ups have rather nice salaries.

There is always a point where one should step back and ask "How did we get here (to this moment)". It is too easy to get swept into the current of life, and forget to ask why. And, honestly, it pisses me off how some corporations work.

Especially, when you hear all the complaining on this forum about how people feel Ableton is trying to milk them of their money. Look at Apple.

All this from someone who would like one, but only so I can use Logic. However, I have done without for long enough, I think I can keep going.

What do you expect, Apple is a corporation subject to the same disiplines of the market as most other coportations are. If you're complaining about Apple being capitalist, I think your missing the wider picture. (For the record, I dislike the hyper-unregulated capitalism we live in now).

Digi V · Post by **Digi V** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:49 pm

anti-banausic, i like that you are thinking for yourself but you are very off on many of your assumptinos and questions (rightfully so, so its ok).

you need to go back and look at the history of both apple, and say microsoft to understand more about what you are asking, the answers and real questions you seek.

i'm not going to debunk anything you said right now, no time, but i promise if you dig for the information, read about the past, you'll come out with a different perspective of the company.

also, good post SubterFuse, however in terms of the Ipod apple is in the opposite position that it is with its computers the ipod dominates in price, economies of scale, and brand recognition.

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:57 pm

I was just saying those things from a philosophical standpoint. While I live in, buy things in, and am influenced by the ultra-capitalism that we live in at this moment, I was just pointing out that it may not philosophically be the best situation.

That's all.

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:38 pm

Philosophy changes nothing, so said the wise

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:00 pm

also, good post SubterFuse, however in terms of the Ipod apple is in the opposite position that it is with its computers the ipod dominates in price, economies of scale, and brand recognition.

Good point.

I just said iPod, because it's the first thing that came to mind... because they just released new iPods yesterday.