features to make Live into a killer live looper

[aviavi]

I think Ableton could turn Live into the hardware looper killer with a few modifications and features:

1. A triggle mode, so that a loop plays immediately after recording (like trigger), but can be toggled on and off (like toggle).

2. Allow the quantize function to be preset by slot, rather than clip. This would allow one to pre-assign whether the loop you're creating is quantized to a beat, measure, or nothing at all.

3. Offer a plug-in or feauture that allows a clip to loop a preset number of times -- say 16 times - with a gradual taper off in volume and sound quality...sort of like the degradation of an analog delay. This would allow loops to morph out, rather than having an abrupt shutoff.

4. Create a dedicated undo or clip erase button that is midi-asssignable.

5. Make the reverse clip audio function midi-assignable.

6. Make a midi-assignable octave up or double speed function.

I know that there are workarounds to some of the above, but they either involve wasting a precious midi-button or getting some sort of midi-to-keystroke software. I think if Ableton developers put themselves in the mindset of someone who's using Live as a live looper, the program would really benefit.

What do you think?

Avi

[Adam YW]

I've been seriously looking into this since seeing the kid beyond video, but there's one feature for me that is making me hesitant...

Live NEEDS to be able to extract a tempo from the first loop recorded. Like on the Boss RC-20 (or the Jam Man, or other modern hardware loopers). On that pedal, you record your first loop and then it extracts from that a tempo which all other loops are quantized to. It would be amazing because the computer doesn't dictate the tempo to the player(s) from the start, and then all the other parts (MIDI tracks, VIs, synced modulations, whatever) can sync to the tempo of the player on stage.

This seems like a very simple calculation, basically the length of your loop divided by 4 (or 6 or 5 or whatever... default 4, option for other sigs). For longer loops all you would need to do is set some kind of parameter so once a loop passes a certain length it is assumed to be 2 bars so the click isn't extremely slow.

This seems simple to me and would make live a slave to the performance that night.

We (my band Yellow Wood) want to use live to loop not just guitar, but all our instruments (mostly standard rock band instruments) and then be able to manipulate the recorded loops, even each other's loops. The creative possibilities of this seem absolutely amazing.

I am considering Native Instruments Guitar Rig 2 for the tempo extraction option. Their LOOP PLAYER can do this. I am not interested in amp modeling and all that stuff, but this is a big feature and considering the cost of the gear I need to make live a viable on-stage looper (about $350 between midi pedals and the live 6 upgrade) I can get NI GR2 for almost the same price on eBay.

Give me clip tempo extraction and my love is yours.

Adam

PS - I am also worried about drive speed (the computer being able to read audio from the drive fast enough). Does anyone know if you can use external flash drives for audio and if this would give a performance boost?? I'm thinking Flash because it's road-worthy and Random access (I think).

[pbajzek]

I agree with triggle mode, and I would love to change the quantize settings by *track*, so I could have most tracks follow the tempo, but have one or two available for non-sync'ed looping.

I Live+Guitar Rig for guitar looping. You may be disappointed in GR's looping features, though it may *seem* to offer what you're looking for. It doesn't work very well in real-time.

[mariner]

everything Avi said.

plus,

make the 'loop brace' user definable.

that way, if you record a 4 bar loop and want to put 4 bars of space after it, you simply type 8 in the loop length box.

-m

[mariner]

bump.

[mooncaine]

Avi, I'm with ya, buddy. Put me down for those features, too. Like the name "triggle", btw.

Every one of those features is something I want, and was hoping Live had already when I bought it.

[mooncaine]

mariner, I like the way you're thinking, but if I have to touch the mouse or keyboard, it's no good. There's gotta be a way to adjust that loop brace with MIDI commands, so I can do it with my feet, or I'd have no use for it.

[mooncaine]

oh yeh, p, we definitely want to be able to run some non-sync'd loops, too, totally hands free.