Harmonic Mixing (DJ)

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:56 pm

I'm really getting into the Rapid Evolution software - but I need to know a little more about actually mixing in key. Although the software points out which tracks will sound harmonically correct, it does not give any hints about progressing your mix.

I seem to remember a post (might have been here - haven't been able to find it, though) where someone described harmonic mixing. I seem to remember that along with the standard 1hr forward, 1hr backwards and same number on the other ring (Camelot Notation inner/outer ring) you could also go dirtectly opposite the key you are currently in to raise the atmosphere. There were also hints towards taking a number of steps (how many???) forwards or backwards on the ring (circle of 5ths?) to raise/lower the atmospher while still mixing in key.

Am I sounding totally ignorant? (But I am a DJ...)

HELP!

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:22 pm

BUMP

danryanfl · Post by **danryanfl** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:56 pm

I believe that the circle they show for camelot notation IS the circle of 5ths. So, one step forward is going up a 5th, and one step back is dropping a 5th (which is the perfect 4th of the current root.)

I seem to recall something I read that talked about taking a half-step or whole-step to change the mood, but that you can't mix melodies in this kind of mix, i.e. you have to only mix the drums during the intro/outro section to "cleanse the audio palate" or whatever.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:42 pm

don't forget that if you use re-pitch mode, a 3 bpm change will change the pitch +/- a half step, which gives you even more track possibilities!

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:34 pm

Okay - good stuff guys, thanks for the replies! Using Camelot Notation, a whole step up would be from 4A to 5A, and a whole step down would be 4A to 3A.

How do you take a half step?

And never forget - "Ain't no half steppin'"... (Big Daddy Kane).

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:01 pm

a half step is a transpose of +/- 1.

a half step wouldn't sound too good. between some related keys there are half steps, between some there are whole steps.
1- whole step - 2 - whole - 3 - half step - 4 - whole - 5 whole - 6 whole - 7 - half - 1 etc.

Look at a music keyboard, the key of C is the white keys, it's the only major key that's all the white keys. The C note is the one to the left of the group of 2 black keys. Notice the pattern, C D E F G A B, the places where two white keys are next to each other are between the 3 and 4 (E and F) and the 7 and 1 (B and C). So playing a key a half step away falls out of that harmonization.

the related key that has the strongest pull towards is the V, the fifth, using a key one step clockwise gives you the V. Second to that is the IV, or fourth, which is one step anti-clockwise.

I find when I mix songs with Mixed In Key I stick to the same key, or related keys, but sometimes a groove just sounds good. In the end let your ears be your guide.

I hope that helps more than it confuses, this is kind of an odd way to learn to look at key. For the most part, work Fifths (transpose 7 half steps).

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:28 pm

I think I've got it - thanks DeadlyKungFu.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:33 pm

Harmonic mixing is both easy and tricky - sometimes the most likely matches just aren't quite "there", while track combinations that go "screw the circle of 5ths!" fit each other like a glove.

I'm intrigued by those key-database things, but honestly, I'd rather go with the cue-button and using my ears...

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:11 pm

For a long time I didn't like the idea of using a database - but I'm sure that by narrowing the number of choices you have for the next tune, you're gonna get a lot more of those "happy coincedences" that all DJ's love. Before I knew about harminic mixing I'd mix for hours trying to find two tracks that just "sing" together. I'm hoping to have a lot more "happy coincedences" now that I'm mixing harmonically...

All those years I was DJ'ing with vinyl, and at times I'd be in the booth with 2 box bags full of 12's. TWO BOX BAGS of possible next tunes! If only I knew back then how to key my tracks - the number of possible next tunes would have been massively decreased. Ever been DJ'ing and had to cue up 3 or 4 "next tracks" until one sounded great? That's not gonna happen anymore! Now, it's just gonna be trying a few next tracks (all of which will be in key) and picking the sweetest. I can't wait!!!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:18 pm

Machinate wrote:Harmonic mixing is both easy and tricky - sometimes the most likely matches just aren't quite "there", while track combinations that go "screw the circle of 5ths!" fit each other like a glove.

I'm intrigued by those key-database things, but honestly, I'd rather go with the cue-button and using my ears...

Ditto. It might help you pick tracks to go together, but ultimately you still need to listen and see if it works or not. That's why i don't use these apps, I'd rather just listen and think, yep that works, or nope, try again

Same process, less work.

paolo topaz · Post by **paolo topaz** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:40 pm

I'm using mixed in key and as I don't play any instruments I find it very helpful

I'm working on a new dj mix with some midi synth additions. My question is does anyone have a guide to how much tuning of the transpose function has to be done in order to get two songs that when pitch locked are way off key?

And just to add another twist to it I prefer to use the re pitch mode(no transpose) as I find that Beats mode distorts the bassline and complex add some hi end noise.

But I am using Beats mode where the keys are so far apart that I will have to transpose them to match.

has anyone any tips on this? just a rough rule of thumb!

many thanks

Paolo

www.paolotopaz.com

paolo topaz · Post by **paolo topaz** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:50 pm

javascript:emoticon(':(')

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:56 pm

find the notes on your music keyboard and count the keys from one to the next, that's the number of steps you need to transpose.

C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B

From D to A# that's 8 steps up, or 4 steps down (8+4=12, the number of steps up plus the number of steps down will always be 12)

Is that what you're asking for?

paolo topaz · Post by **paolo topaz** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:32 pm

at the moment I'm tyring to transpose one track from 2A(E-Flat minor) to 5A(C-minor)

or I could transpose it to 4A(f-minor) as according to Mixed in Key this mix will still be in key.

I have both loops playing over each other and I'm just changing the tranpose ct box in a range of -15ct to +15ct and seeing what sounds best, but is there a more scientific approach?

many thanks for the tips

Paolo

paolo topaz · Post by **paolo topaz** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:10 am

anyone transposed tracks in live when arranging a dj mix?