(OT)Climate chaos: Bush's climate of fear (BBC-Panorama)

victorjohn · Post by **victorjohn** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:18 am

muscleandhate wrote:The current Bush administration is run by evangelical christians. I suspect they want global warming because it can be interpreted as some sort of bibical flood tantamount to Noah's Ark, perhaps. What is of most concern is that they believe in the book of Revelation. If you read the book has a strong apocolyptic discourse running through it (note Riders of the Apocolypse), in which the all will be 'judged'. Remember they believe in life after death...

Just a word from someone who doesn't fit your stereotype, I am a Christian, and like Christ I am a pacifist. I abhor the action the US government is taking in the world today. While I do believe in final judgement, I am certainly not jolly about the idea of people suffering in this life or in the life after this...

but I think we should all be realistic about the idea that any condemnation incurred brings with it consequences. If you yourselves did not believe so, then this discussion would be pointless as there would be no wrong action to take regarding global warming or anything else...

and Bush would then merely be chief of the hedonists, and the most successful to date.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:01 am

muscleandhate wrote:The current Bush administration is run by evangelical christians. I suspect they want global warming because it can be interpreted as some sort of bibical flood tantamount to Noah's Ark, perhaps...

While your first statement is correct, the second one is not. Bush's environmental policies are based on Capitalism, not Christianity.

It's no secret Big Oil is in bed with this administration - the buck stops at Cheney as far as that goes:

A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress.

The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.

In a joint hearing last week of the Senate Energy and Commerce committees, the chief executives of Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp. and ConocoPhillips said their firms did not participate in the 2001 task force. The president of Shell Oil said his company did not participate "to my knowledge," and the chief of BP America Inc. said he did not know.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01842.html

The bottom line is just that - the bottom line. Nobody wants to see the Earth fall apart, but even more importantly nobody in power who profits from things that are bad for the Earth is willing to give up some of that wealth in return for "greener" (i.e. less profitable) solutions. And that view is very un-Christian, imo.

trip_out · Post by **trip_out** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:22 am

jamester wrote:America can't save the planet here. Whether our administration comes clean about this problem or not is a minor detail in the big picture. Hate to sound bleak, but the environment's f*cked, and there's really nothing that can be done about it...

Um yes there is - we can stop fucking it up further.

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:51 am

tell you another interesting programme from the weeknd, kind of tied in with bush and the environemnt) on channel 4 in the uk - was the doomsday code... yep sounds well trashy - was all about revelations and the end of the world - in other words nonsense....

What was interesting was the beliefs that people had about these events… in the lead up to the "return of jesus"

, the event known as the rapture (google this shit, how any one belives it I don’t know, infact check this site out http://www.raptureready.com/

) but more importantly the closness these belivers have with the bush administration to the point they are advisors on any situation in israel

, Bush is apparantly a beliver too.... Was quite scary actually watchin it to think these people actually want these events to happen (global warming, war in the midle east ) - they also belive the environmental events triggered by global warming is a sign of the prophecy and so activly encourage pollution to happen... was a mental programme and worth watching if you can find it. I think the figure was 16 million Americans are believrs – a huge slice of voters for any government, so theyre beliefs cannot be dismissed. Oh and the other funny thing about it all is they believ the UN to be way the antichrist comes to power, so they are strongly againt the UN … you couldn’t actually make this kind of stuff up!!

The thing about it all was though, the boy presenting the programme managed to disprove almost all the elements of it , basically cause all the events mentiond and believed to day were added at different points in history - i think the rapture part was added only 3 or 400 years ago.

heres the link to shows page
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsi ... msday.html

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:30 am

crazy and very scary shit. so much money and power in the hands of deluded nutters

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:27 pm

trip_out wrote:
jamester wrote:America can't save the planet here. Whether our administration comes clean about this problem or not is a minor detail in the big picture. Hate to sound bleak, but the environment's f*cked, and there's really nothing that can be done about it...
Um yes there is - we can stop fucking it up further.

Define "we".

(FTR, I'm an atheist and a Bush-hater. But I'm also realistic, sadly.)

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:36 pm

jamester wrote:Define "we".

(FTR, I'm an atheist and a Bush-hater. But I'm also realistic, sadly.)

The USA, we are one of the two countries that refuse to ratify the Kyoto treaty, note that China has!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kyot ... p_2005.png

China is at least committed to trying, we are not, so comparing etc. isn't going to get us out of this.

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:40 pm

I'm not arguing here, but don't let China off the hook so easily. The "signing" of the Kyoto Protocol is mostly symbolic. China is actually exempt from the requirements of Kyoto, despite the fact that they're the second largest emitter of Greenhouse gases! WTF? India's in the same position.

Wikipedia:

As of August 2006, a total of 165 countries and other governmental entities have ratified the agreement (representing over 61.6% of emissions from Annex I countries). Notable exceptions include the United States and Australia. Other countries, like India and China, which have ratified the protocol, are not required to reduce carbon emissions under the present agreement despite their relatively large populations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:41 pm

diverdee wrote:Whoever actually wrote revelations ate some bad shrooms maaaaaan!!!

That was exactly how it was written.

victorjohn · Post by **victorjohn** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:19 pm

jeskola wrote: i think the rapture part was added only 3 or 400 years ago.

I don't want to nitpick, but literary research is required to comment on these ideas, and the details can be easily misconstrued in a short television program.

"Rapture" comes from the word "Harpazo" in the ancient Greek, which means to be "caught up." This word has been in the Epistle commonly known as 1 Thessalonians since it was written, just under 2,000 years ago. It has remained untouched in most of that time.

I know you won't care to know, but trust me, I have many more resources than you would believe to prove that this is true. PM me if you would really like to study Church history, and if you are interested in linguistics and the survival of traditional text through the ages. This will include a comparison between Ancient Greek writing like Plato and early Christian writings such as found in the Canon.

I cannot post links, because these references will require a trip to a decent University library for verification such as Publishing dates.

As to the interpretation of it that is espoused by the Escatologists that you see on your TV programs, I concede that to use Scripture to justify an unloving attitude and a calcified right wing political stance is error of the highest order... And if you are saying that it is a newer view, then yes as a popular view it is rather new and rather abused.

Christ will return, no doubt, but that does not make it right to prey on the weak, kill for riches, or declare holy war.

A little research, a little Bible reading, and you will find that the "wolves in sheeps clothing" that Jesus warned of are already among us and perverting the Word of God to their own end.

The greatest irony of all of this is that those who would use the Word of God to harm people, thus slandering the name of Jesus, are themselves playing out their own wicked role in the divine drama...

A bit OT admittedly, but then again slandering Holy Scripture in an ignorant manner is also pretty OT. Let Bush be his own entity and mispresentation of the Love of God.

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:42 pm

but there is reason to believe the revs were concocted with the aid of mushrooms

victorjohn · Post by **victorjohn** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:28 pm

Meef Chaloin wrote:but there is reason to believe the revs were concocted with the aid of mushrooms

Ah, you are sorely mistaken my friend... I submit for evidence Revelation 10:9-10

So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey." I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour. Then I was told, "You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings."

The Apostle John's vision continues from there, and THAT sounds like LSD blotter paper to me, if anything. Clearly I don't believe that it is, but if you are going to accuse Biblical characters of drug use it would be wise to get the story right.

djarum · Post by **djarum** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:26 am

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/clima ... 62,00.html

djarum · Post by **djarum** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:34 pm

*bump* for the polar bear crew...

sgx · Post by **sgx** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:51 pm

Rapture is also a pretty cool soft synth.

My dad is the head of a meteorological branch at NASA and gripes about Bush and his appointed buddies high up at NASA. Since Bush's electrion and these new people came in, there has been a big shift and tendancy to ignore/not support projects researching climate change and to support big businesses.

In my dad's example, higher up people than my dad were working hard to prematurely ground my his branch's satellite project (grounding a satellite involves firing its boosters at the correct moment in its orbit so that it falls and burns up over an ocean to minimize chances of a spec of it hitting someone in the head). The satellite was a pretty big contributor for global rainfall data gathering that is essential for climate change research. Part of the reason they wanted to ground the satellite was so that they could get started on the next similar one, but this time, they would not build it in house at NASA in their existing cleanrooms, but contract it out to other large businesses that Bushes are buddy-buddy with.