helps from audio expert

[froggzy]

hello all,


i played in a club last week end with traktor and mp3's and funnily, (actualy, not very funny.. ) the sound was very .... mmm...kind of screamy..
the pitch was hight, it was hurting my hear (and probably the one of the punters..)
it was really "squelchy"... like there was too much high and trebble...
i tried to put down the high but then it was souding muchy, i tried different setting but to no avail..
what's more, for each different record, the sound was dramaticaly changing...
when playing vinyls, all was fine...

the weirdest thing is that, before that set (it was at 6 this morning..) i did a 4 hour set in another place and all was perfectly fine.

i am still scratching my head on this one...

maybe it was their sound sysytem?

damned, the guy wanted me to do a test because he said that digital sound was crap compared to vinyl.... i told him that my setup was sounding fine...

well, he was not conviced one bit after that experience!!

he told me that the equalizer was perfectly setup to give the best sound with vinyl and that because of the mp3's "bad quality", some frequencies where not reproduced correctly and thus, the sound was shit...

would this be possible?

any sound techy out there that could confirm this?

many thank's for any help

ps: before anyone ask, all my mp3's are downloaded from beatport and are at 320kb...also, i played in many different club with that setup and never had a problem whatsoever..
and sorry for the long post

[jeskola]

well each clubs system will be different - itll be going through compressors and sound desks - the engineer guy should be monitoring your performance and adjusting accordingly. then again that depends on the size of the venue.

[sweetjesus]

hello all,


i played in a club last week end with traktor and mp3's and funnily, (actualy, not very funny.. ) the sound was very .... mmm...kind of screamy..
the pitch was hight, it was hurting my hear (and probably the one of the punters..)
it was really "squelchy"... like there was too much high and trebble...
i tried to put down the high but then it was souding muchy, i tried different setting but to no avail..
what's more, for each different record, the sound was dramaticaly changing...
when playing vinyls, all was fine...

the weirdest thing is that, before that set (it was at 6 this morning..) i did a 4 hour set in another place and all was perfectly fine.

i am still scratching my head on this one...

maybe it was their sound sysytem?

damned, the guy wanted me to do a test because he said that digital sound was crap compared to vinyl.... i told him that my setup was sounding fine...

well, he was not conviced one bit after that experience!!

he told me that the equalizer was perfectly setup to give the best sound with vinyl and that because of the mp3's "bad quality", some frequencies where not reproduced correctly and thus, the sound was shit...

would this be possible?

any sound techy out there that could confirm this?

many thank's for any help

ps: before anyone ask, all my mp3's are downloaded from beatport and are at 320kb...also, i played in many different club with that setup and never had a problem whatsoever..
and sorry for the long post

nah the guy is a fuckin idiot who should be slashed to bits using cd's with mp3s on them.

he probably put you on a phono preamp which adds the RIAA phono eq curve.

i see this over and over and over

[froggzy]

you mean on the "phono in" channel instead of the "line in" one?


mmmm, that is possible actualy.... i'll have to check that out...

[woodman1200]

To my highly trained, golden audiophile ears, digital is inferior to analog. This is not a sweeping statement because the high-rez digital audio formats (like SACD/DSD) are damn fine. MP3s, however, are not high rez enough even if the bit rate is high. MP3s are still compressed audio and that means stuff is missing from the original recording. Cymbals, hi-hats sound indistinct and noisy, while low frequencies sound slow, muddy and lacking tunefulness.

Even 16/44 CD audio is not quite high enough resolution, though the screechyness is not as troublesome as compressed audio.

If windows media player was involved anywhere, then it's even worse. You can hear it's characteristic HF ailiasing a mile away on anything - stereo, computer, even on a phone. It sounds like 8bit audio without filters.

If you can use wavs or aiffs (not converted from MP3s, but from the original source), then you will get better sound than MP3s - guaranteed.

Another thing is that the soundguy usually knows his system very well. If the system is really clean sounding, then the difference between vinyl/analog and digital/MP3 will be immediately apparent.

[anti-banausic]

Do you really think any club has a system that is so clean sounding?

I mean I agree with the whole mp3's aren't as good bit, but it also soooo depends on the listening environment. My guess is that something wasn't realy optimized for digital audio in the system, or worse yet, that this was done purposefully, as people are still having a hard time letting go of DJs spinning vinyl.

[Johnisfaster]

he told me that the equalizer was perfectly setup to give the best sound with vinyl and that because of the mp3's "bad quality", some frequencies where not reproduced correctly and thus, the sound was shit...

I'm thinking this is the problem right here, sounds like he just left all his eq settings where he always leaves them and he should have been adjusting to you at least to some extent.

it's kinda upsetting to think the sound guy is claiming digital sounds like crap yet it's probably his fault that it sounds like crap. irritating no?

[woodman1200]

The phono curve was a thought for a moment, but the RIAA EQ curve boosts LF which means the sound would have been dark and muddy from a normally EQ'd source. A record played without RIAA EQ is what sounds thin & screetchy.

Though it's possible that if it was a line in to a phono stage then it would have been very distorted.


Anti-bananusic
No, I don't believe that nightclub systems are all that clean. I tried to simplify too much - what I should have said is that the horn tweeters and/or midranges in PA speakers usually go two ways; they can be crappy and unrelenting or they can be accurate but still unrelenting. In both cases, this requires a fine balance of EQ to keep it under control. Especially because of the efficiency and nature of horns, digital noise/artifacts would be very noticable at those volume levels.

Also, I do dig MP3's - they sound just fine on the computer, iPod, or even a boom-box, but for recording, performance, and serious listening they're not so good. Like you said, it depends on the listening enviroment.

Cheers,

[anti-banausic]

Anti-bananusic
No, I don't believe that nightclub systems are all that clean. I tried to simplify too much - what I should have said is that the horn tweeters and/or midranges in PA speakers usually go two ways; they can be crappy and unrelenting or they can be accurate but still unrelenting. In both cases, this requires a fine balance of EQ to keep it under control. Especially because of the efficiency and nature of horns, digital noise/artifacts would be very noticable at those volume levels.

Also, I do dig MP3's - they sound just fine on the computer, iPod, or even a boom-box, but for recording, performance, and serious listening they're not so good. Like you said, it depends on the listening enviroment.

Cheers,

Well put. And this makes me think that the sound guy had his setup, well, setup, and wasn't going to adjust for the OP. Which is a little lame, but probably expected unless you are a top-billed performer/DJ. It's interesting when you go to a club, I believe they honestly make the intro DJs sound worse, so that when the "star" comes on, he can sound so much better, and people have this misconception of skill and sound, etc.....

Lame.

[philipbarrett]

Another thing is that the soundguy usually knows his system very well. If the system is really clean sounding, then the difference between vinyl/analog and digital/MP3 will be immediately apparent.

I get to mix on (lucky bugger that I am) high end sound reinforcement systems everyday & any differences between a good mp3 and analog are really hard to detect. The studio is one thing but the acoustics in a live situation are a great equalizer (good pun eh?).

Any so-called engineer who can come out with a sweeping quote like "digital sounds like crap" has his head stuck far out of the daylight anyway & can be safely ignored. A Digico D-5 console is all digital, does it sound different to a Midas Heritage analog? Yes. Does it suck? No. Is he saying that a vinyl 12" cut from a ProTools session sounds obviously worse than one cut from a 2" analog session? Idiots like that give us all a bad name.

Right, I'm off the soapbox.

I'm with the others, he had you overdriving an input, probably the track to track differences were caused by more or less LF energy causing more or less distortion. It may have been an RIAA input & the overdrive was so gross that the HF rolloff was not noticible.

PB

[JamieG]

hello all,

he told me that the equalizer was perfectly setup to give the best sound with vinyl and that because of the mp3's "bad quality", some frequencies where not reproduced correctly and thus, the sound was shit...

would this be possible?

This whiffs a bit, the audible frequency content of a track should be similar to that of vinyl. Dynamics will be different though (one of the drawbacks of this level of digital audio technology, but is similar to CD's).


The EQ for the 'front of house' speakers should be set to get a FLAT EQ responce from the speakers (in simple terms, set up to sound good for that particular room, not for a particular format). Dunno what the set up was here?? Did you hear some vinyl to compare?


Maybe there was some kind of multi-band compression was in place? A simple compressor would be receiving line level from the mixer no mater what, so shouldn't matter what format you are using! Was there even a sound engineer there?

[franknputer]

Yeah, I call bullshit on this guy. I've been a pro audio engineer for over 15 years (does that sound totally pathetic to mention that? ) and I can tell you that a properly set up sound system should sound good no matter what you put into it, more or less. (Of course, if you put crap in then you get crap out, but at least the crap will be correct! ) If it sounded as bad as you describe, then there's something wrong with the system.

Yeah, if he put you into the phono input that would be completely wrong. Not only because of the RIAA curve, but because of the level & impedance mismatches, all of which would screw up the sound. You simply cannot run a line level out (from a PC or anything else) into a phono preamp & expect it to work.

[JamieG]

Yeah, I call bullshit on this guy. I've been a pro audio engineer for over 15 years (does that sound totally pathetic to mention that? ) and I can tell you that a properly set up sound system should sound good no matter what you put into it, more or less. (Of course, if you put crap in then you get crap out, but at least the crap will be correct! ) If it sounded as bad as you describe, then there's something wrong with the system.

Yeah, if he put you into the phono input that would be completely wrong. Not only because of the RIAA curve, but because of the level & impedance mismatches, all of which would screw up the sound. You simply cannot run a line level out (from a PC or anything else) into a phono preamp & expect it to work.

I'm with this guy. I also know what I'm talking about and a properly set-up sound system should sound true to the input no matter what! You did nothing wrong, so don't worry about it!


Jamie

[anti-banausic]

I have to say, I think this is one of the most harmonious threads on the board recently. Everything is warm and fuzzy.

I think it's because we all have someone exterior to the board and LIVE to gang up on, huh?

Just like if aliens were to suddenly descend from the skies, we might all put away our differences and struggle as the human race as opposed to all the factions that we have.

Hugs.

[rbmonosylabik]

I have to say, I think this is one of the most harmonious threads on the board recently. Everything is warm and fuzzy.

I think it's because we all have someone exterior to the board and LIVE to gang up on, huh?

Just like if aliens were to suddenly descend from the skies, we might all put away our differences and struggle as the human race as opposed to all the factions that we have.

Hugs.

*group hug*






aaaaaaawwwwww!