anti-banausic wrote:Just like if aliens were to suddenly descend from the skies, we might all put away our differences and struggle as the human race as opposed to all the factions that we have..
reagan loverhelps from audio expert
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Meef Chaloin
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philipbarrett
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Methinks it's cos you got a core of guys here who do this for a living and actually try to make an artist sound as good as they can rather than b-ssing their way through their own mistakes. Luckily,hell has a special place & a Ramsa console waiting for his type of guy.anti-banausic wrote:I think it's because we all have someone exterior to the board and LIVE to gang up on, huh?
We have to deal with the fallout from performers who've been burned by jerks like this. It would have been so easy to trouble shoot too. Plug some cans into the laptop/interface, if it's distorted then you be da problem, if it's not then I got some fixin' to do Lucy!
Feel th' love here?
PB
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Robert Henke
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- Location: Berlin
After more then ten years of performing and with a background of sound engineering I can say that most sound guys do an accepteable job, some are complete fools and very rarely you have the pleasure to work with guys who are skilled and motivated.
If anyone says to me prior a perfomance that the PA is set up "perfectly" this is usually alarming and means the opposite. For good sound either the sound guy or the DJ / Musician has to make sure he is delivering the right sound for a given sitution.
Some records have lots of piercing mid range, some have too much high end, some may contain frequencies which sound good normaly but bad in this particular room.
A sealed EQ rack with a "perfect flat curve" and a big "DON`T TOUCH IT" sticker will not help in this situation, it will just keep you from adjsuting it better.
Solution: add your EQ ( --> EQ4 / EQ8 will do )at the end in your master chain and learn how to use it in a live situation and you will be fine.
A nice little PA story :
Arriving at smal open air stage. Two stacks of Meyer Sound speakers. Cool.
But: Sound is very strange. Bass is huge and clear, highs are okay but no mids at all. DJ tries to compensate with his eq. Sound is horrible and hurts you. Looking at crossover. BSS, good stuff. Looking at Mixer. Mackie, adjusted fine. WTF goes on??? PA guy says all is fine but does not even make an attempt to leave his chair behind speakers and have an ear at dancefloor. Me decides to look closer at crossover. Seems to be a two way PA connected to a three way crossover.
Seems to be two mid/high range speakers and a large sub. I adjust the curve in a way that that the high out goes all the way down to low mid and the rest is for the sub.
Fantastic Sound. Meyer Sound. Yeah. DJ is happy bejond words. Me is happy. People happy. Bathing in sound, looking at stars.
Ten minutes later sound is as bad as it was before. Me going back to soundguy.
Short look at crossover. Reseted to the old curve which seem to make no sense and sounds bad.
PA guy: "this is a three way system."
Me: yes, but why does it sound like shit if set to three ways and perfect if set to two ???????"
PA guy: "this is a three way system...."
(imagine bad comedy loop dialog here....)
Okay. I had a closer look at the wiring. Yes. it was a three way system. All the mid range went to the second top speaker. I looked at this speaker. It was not a mid range speaker at all but a second smaler bass bin, completly incapeable of reproducing mid range at all. I tried to explain this to the stoned PA guy.
All could be easy: The high/mid speaker had no problem with reproducing the full range from low mids to high and the huge bass bin did the rest.
But the PA guy did insist in piping all mid range into the small bass bin and did not want to understand ( or even attempt to look at the speaker !!! ) that it is NOT A MID RANGE SPEAKER !!!!!!!!!
....
..
.
.
I gave up. DJ played with less volume and drunk more.
Robert
If anyone says to me prior a perfomance that the PA is set up "perfectly" this is usually alarming and means the opposite. For good sound either the sound guy or the DJ / Musician has to make sure he is delivering the right sound for a given sitution.
Some records have lots of piercing mid range, some have too much high end, some may contain frequencies which sound good normaly but bad in this particular room.
A sealed EQ rack with a "perfect flat curve" and a big "DON`T TOUCH IT" sticker will not help in this situation, it will just keep you from adjsuting it better.
Solution: add your EQ ( --> EQ4 / EQ8 will do )at the end in your master chain and learn how to use it in a live situation and you will be fine.
A nice little PA story :
Arriving at smal open air stage. Two stacks of Meyer Sound speakers. Cool.
But: Sound is very strange. Bass is huge and clear, highs are okay but no mids at all. DJ tries to compensate with his eq. Sound is horrible and hurts you. Looking at crossover. BSS, good stuff. Looking at Mixer. Mackie, adjusted fine. WTF goes on??? PA guy says all is fine but does not even make an attempt to leave his chair behind speakers and have an ear at dancefloor. Me decides to look closer at crossover. Seems to be a two way PA connected to a three way crossover.
Seems to be two mid/high range speakers and a large sub. I adjust the curve in a way that that the high out goes all the way down to low mid and the rest is for the sub.
Fantastic Sound. Meyer Sound. Yeah. DJ is happy bejond words. Me is happy. People happy. Bathing in sound, looking at stars.
Ten minutes later sound is as bad as it was before. Me going back to soundguy.
Short look at crossover. Reseted to the old curve which seem to make no sense and sounds bad.
PA guy: "this is a three way system."
Me: yes, but why does it sound like shit if set to three ways and perfect if set to two ???????"
PA guy: "this is a three way system...."
(imagine bad comedy loop dialog here....)
Okay. I had a closer look at the wiring. Yes. it was a three way system. All the mid range went to the second top speaker. I looked at this speaker. It was not a mid range speaker at all but a second smaler bass bin, completly incapeable of reproducing mid range at all. I tried to explain this to the stoned PA guy.
All could be easy: The high/mid speaker had no problem with reproducing the full range from low mids to high and the huge bass bin did the rest.
But the PA guy did insist in piping all mid range into the small bass bin and did not want to understand ( or even attempt to look at the speaker !!! ) that it is NOT A MID RANGE SPEAKER !!!!!!!!!
....
..
.
.
I gave up. DJ played with less volume and drunk more.
Robert
Last edited by Robert Henke on Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
i was at a gig recently where an "electronic band" meaning one guy with live, Nord synth, one bassplayer and a singer. They were a good band
But the Nord was doing bass sounds apparently unfiltered as well as there being a bass player, so the whole gig was washed out with bass - It was making me feel physically sick
it was such a basic thing and they had a dedicated "engineer" they brought with them and probably even paid, who apparently had years of experience
I dont know if the bass was DIed into the PA or if it was just relying on the amp but it was in a quite enclosed space and i said to my girlfried "any bets if I said anything to the sound guy he would say "it's this room" which is usually the response you get from a bad engineer
and all he had to do was decide which bass was going to do which frequencies and EQ accordingly, and if the bass guitar wasnt DIed and he had no control over it then completely kill the synth from maybe 150 down - which should be the most fundamental thing for any engineer
it was such a basic mistake and it ruined their gig
But the Nord was doing bass sounds apparently unfiltered as well as there being a bass player, so the whole gig was washed out with bass - It was making me feel physically sick
it was such a basic thing and they had a dedicated "engineer" they brought with them and probably even paid, who apparently had years of experience
I dont know if the bass was DIed into the PA or if it was just relying on the amp but it was in a quite enclosed space and i said to my girlfried "any bets if I said anything to the sound guy he would say "it's this room" which is usually the response you get from a bad engineer
and all he had to do was decide which bass was going to do which frequencies and EQ accordingly, and if the bass guitar wasnt DIed and he had no control over it then completely kill the synth from maybe 150 down - which should be the most fundamental thing for any engineer
it was such a basic mistake and it ruined their gig
After working with them for 10+ years, I've decided that many small-time live sound "engineers" (and I use that term loosely) are even more stage-wannabees with chips on their shoulders than promoters, and will wield the power of their little empire over anyone who disagrees with their all-encompassing knowledge of all things audio.
I played last weekend through a huge system that was run by a top-quality PA guy. They're not all bad. He did have the prerequesite receding hairline, pony tail, big gut, glasses, and Leatherman on his belt. In fact, he looked scarily like this guy!
Also, I defy anyone to detect a noticeable difference between a well-encoded 320kbps MP3 and an AIFF/WAV in a typical live situation.
I played last weekend through a huge system that was run by a top-quality PA guy. They're not all bad. He did have the prerequesite receding hairline, pony tail, big gut, glasses, and Leatherman on his belt. In fact, he looked scarily like this guy!
Also, I defy anyone to detect a noticeable difference between a well-encoded 320kbps MP3 and an AIFF/WAV in a typical live situation.
Last edited by hambone1 on Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
waow, first of all, thank you for all your comment, ideas and support.
i asked this question at other forum and you are all saying that the sound setup is the culprit..
this just confirm my initial thought....
i could not go on the net yesterday evening as my router just died on me!!
anyway, the guy is ginving me a "second chance" in 3 week, so i will check all what you told me here
many thank's to all, this is a great comunity
froggy
i asked this question at other forum and you are all saying that the sound setup is the culprit..
this just confirm my initial thought....
i could not go on the net yesterday evening as my router just died on me!!
anyway, the guy is ginving me a "second chance" in 3 week, so i will check all what you told me here
many thank's to all, this is a great comunity
froggy
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sweetjesus
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- Location: www.fridge.net.au
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do a soundcheck beforehand and use a digital camera to take snapshots of settings on consoles/mixersfroggzy wrote:waow, first of all, thank you for all your comment, ideas and support.
i asked this question at other forum and you are all saying that the sound setup is the culprit..
this just confirm my initial thought....
i could not go on the net yesterday evening as my router just died on me!!
anyway, the guy is ginving me a "second chance" in 3 week, so i will check all what you told me here
many thank's to all, this is a great comunity
froggy
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rbmonosylabik
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sweetjesus
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