Rendered track sounds different issue

bukemhed · Post by **bukemhed** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:08 pm

OK...So I rendered a track to disk. When I play it back its sounds very different from the Ableton session. The drums are a lot less present. Anyone know why this is happening?

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:56 pm

Not sure, because I rarely use render to disk, but I believe that some have said that render normalizes your audio. Therefore, if you have some sounds quieter in the mix, they may be brought "up" in the mix, thereby sort of decreasing the perceived loudness of your drums.

Instead of render, you can resample your track by creating a new audio track, and set it to resample, and record. It takes a little longer, but WYHIWYG. That's what I normally do. Then you can import this file into an editor if you want to normalize (most editors are much better at this than LIVE). You can peak normalize, or what not from there.

Hope that helps.

Again, resample gives you exactly what you hear from the master out. But the file that is created will need to be put on re-pitch, otherwise, there will be artefacts from the warping in other modes.

Best,
AB

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm

Check for any automation on the tracks in arrangement view. Maybe there is something your missing. There is an option to normalize when rendering to disk, dunno if you used that or not?

Can't see any reason for this.......maybe try upping the sample rate/resolution of the rendered file (i'm not sure of the internal process when Live renders, but I have never had a problem like this)?

Also make sure you are not clipping at all during the mix before you render.

Jamie

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:05 am

you can select/deselect the "normalize" option at will.

i havent normalized any renders so far, so i havent had this problem you speak of yet

deutero · Post by **deutero** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:16 am

Interesting. I've been having problems with the render to disk function also. Everything sounds great in the mix, I render it, and find that the midi bass track (and only that track) has dropped a couple of semitones in the rendered file. I end up having to freeze that track first, then it renders ok. In my case I think it's some little disagreement between Live and the VSTi bass module I'm using, although everything works great before rendering.

Post by **Alex** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:46 am

Do you get these differences too when rendering with the same sample rate as set up for your audio interface, with 32 bit and without normalization?

Regards,
/Alex

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:57 am

I don't see the advantage with the "faster" render to disk. What could be better than recording into a track in realtime?

bukemhed · Post by **bukemhed** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:20 pm

So I tried rendering w/o normalization, different samples rates, etc, and still have the same problem. Haven't tried the rewire idea yet, but sounds like that will work too. So I just ran able as as a slave in Protools, and what a difference! The bounced track in Protools is crystal clear!! Also searched a previous thread and it looks like Live just doesn't render to disck as well as other apps. Seems like this is a bit of a major drawback in Live, but I still love it.

somejerk · Post by **somejerk** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:40 pm

i'm having similar issues.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47777

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:52 pm

RESAMPLE.......I said it before, create an audio track, in the I/O area, put it on resample, and play the track while recording in this new audio track.

I know, perhaps it is a workaround, but for now, it is a good one. Just don't forget to change the resulting clip to re-pitch, otherwise it won't sound like the master out due to the warp engine.

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:42 pm

hmmmmm. wow. i see a lot of people having this problem

hopefully that'll get fixed for L6!!!

overdub · Post by **overdub** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:22 pm

Hi guys

Not that this is any help.... but I've never had those issues!!!!
I even mastered my last album in live, and I'm currently mixing and rendering an album for another band, with as much as 28 audio tracks in some songs -
and again: no problems hhmmmmm?????

Good luck to you all

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:23 pm

bukemhed wrote:So I tried rendering w/o normalization, different samples rates, etc, and still have the same problem. Haven't tried the rewire idea yet, but sounds like that will work too. So I just ran able as as a slave in Protools, and what a difference! The bounced track in Protools is crystal clear!! Also searched a previous thread and it looks like Live just doesn't render to disck as well as other apps. Seems like this is a bit of a major drawback in Live, but I still love it.

Pro Tools "bounce to disk" is done in real time. This is a very important distinction.

Do not use lives render to disk. You've listened to your music for days front to back.
Why print your mix in half the time? It makes no sense.

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:26 pm

yea, i've been having that problem as well.

that and mad level spikes with anything timestretched.

not pretty.

between that and having to avoid using the compressors i'm getting really fed up.

do_om · Post by **do_om** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:35 am

This issue has been discussed with all major apps, not just Live.
I remember back in the old Cubase Vst days, all hell was breaking
loose...(I worked tech support for a music store back then)

There is a reason that the industry standard "pro" app Pro Tools only have
real time bouncing. As mentioned by another poster earlier, Resample !
That should do it.