Is Electronic Music Dying or Growing?

[forge]

Pros: New, democratized music possibilities. Cons: the noise floor is higher than ever. There are gems out there, but looking for them ain't easy at all...

If everyone could shit diamonds, they would be worthless

Thus endeth the parable of DJ Raiden !

both great posts - and for different reasons than both of you probably meant

first tomperson:

Also, electronic music in the sense of being novelty, well, because it's a "new medium", is also dying i think. There's nothing new about computers and digital devices now, as it was in the 90s. There's no need to make the distinction anymore.

this is the paradox - it isnt a new medium in the sense that it was 20 years ago, but I think now it really has just begun in terms of what you can do - maybe a bit like computer graphics in movies - it really has in the last 5 years gone from cheesy looking obviously fake cartoony animation (even star wars attack of the clones was let down by that watery planet with the clone armies - it just looked too fake by George Lucas usual standards) t5o now being able to actually create real believable stuff, and on quite a basic level - and that real suspension of disbelief is when the real fun starts

I feel it is definitely the same with audio

I've personally only had 24bit for about 3 years, and I felt it made a big difference to the fidelity

we really are at the beginning with this stuff, and we are going to see some amazing stuff, but we're only now in the process of catching up - in fact I think the last 5 years jump in technology will take me another 10 to get a grip on - you probably cant fairly say many of us here are using all the tools we have to their fullest capability by a long way - there just arent enough hours in the day

32bit/96kHz full surround hasnt even become the standard universally yet, when it does making music will be a different experience again

And Angstrom: Love the martial arts analogy and precisely why I keep promising myself I will one day take up wing chun or something

but I think the point you made is actually a good argument for why it doesnt really matter how democratised it is - because it will only be the good and determined ones who give it more that master it, just like martial arts - precisely why I'm the fat bastard who never got round to actually doing it, instead I was doing this, more mental thing and less physical so probably nowhere near as healhy

there will always be people who do it with playstations or the easiest way possible and probably do something half decent, but it's what they do then - how long they stick at it and how much they put into it that will make the difference

and really I havent got a fucking clue what I expect to get out of music, other than probably what a martial arts dude gets out of being black belt or whatever - just the knowledge that you are developing your craft and improving and might hopefully at some point leave something worthwhile behind if never actually seeing any success yourself

[forge]

and saying all this, I just tuned into an Annie Nightingale show last week, and a tune just came in with this bassline and it made me go

[tomperson]

I love when this kind of conversations come up, it's a pity that just some of us jump into them...they seem to dissappear much quicker than, let's say a discussion regarding the last VST or controller...

first tomperson:

Also, electronic music in the sense of being novelty, well, because it's a "new medium", is also dying i think. There's nothing new about computers and digital devices now, as it was in the 90s. There's no need to make the distinction anymore.

this is the paradox - it isnt a new medium in the sense that it was 20 years ago, but I think now it really has just begun in terms of what you can do - maybe a bit like computer graphics in movies - it really has in the last 5 years gone from cheesy looking obviously fake cartoony animation (even star wars attack of the clones was let down by that watery planet with the clone armies - it just looked too fake by George Lucas usual standards) t5o now being able to actually create real believable stuff, and on quite a basic level - and that real suspension of disbelief is when the real fun starts

I'll add a bit more. First, we had the time when computer music sounded cheesy because of its limitations, but interesting. Then, we went into trying to emulate "real sounds". Then, as time passed, we went onto creating the very first "codes" of this new language, which is, I think where we are now. There's no point in emulating. We have to create this new idiom, with its own characteristics, just like photography evolved into something different from painting, and film evolved into something different from photography. This is the thing now, it's like we have this very limited alphabet, and lots of people have access to it. Many of them continue to create the same sentences, while others try to push boundaries, creating new words, sentences, phrases, or even new letters.

That's why I stress the fact that we have yet to explore the potential of the digital medium, develop its idiom, and embrace its inherent qualities instead of trying to emulate the "real world" and follow already stablished paths.

32bit/96kHz full surround hasnt even become the standard universally yet, when it does making music will be a different experience again

On the technical side of things, this will be a huge change. I don't have the money to have a decent surround rig, but I'm dying to jump on this. Total spatial experience.

[forge]

That's why I stress the fact that we have yet to explore the potential of the digital medium, develop its idiom, and embrace its inherent qualities instead of trying to emulate the "real world" and follow already stablished paths.

32bit/96kHz full surround hasnt even become the standard universally yet, when it does making music will be a different experience again

On the technical side of things, this will be a huge change. I don't have the money to have a decent surround rig, but I'm dying to jump on this. Total spatial experience.

yeah definitely

I'm actually living in waiting for the day when a studio is just a room with full surrond, bass under your feet and you have full on 3d holographic projection of all the visuals and you completely interact with the music as if you are part of it just with gestures and voice recognition

no more midi controllers needed it you can just hammer it out on your chest and sweep filters in the air - yell out "track 4 autofilter frequency" and then turn the designated sweep hand from left to right in the air

10 years time I think we'll be really starting to play with things like that, and 20 years it will be standard if the world is still standing

[djsynchro]

Techno is DEAD.

All the kids are now into 3/4 waltzing so I play really OldSkool stuff like Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Bach, Brahms, Stravinsky, Prokovjev. That shit rules.

[dj superflat]

i think the shift to electronic music will ultimately be as extreme as (e.g.) the shift from the music of 1850 to 1950 -- a whole new world, music that would be almost unrecognizeable as such to someone from the past. of course, there may be limitations on what humans want in music.

as for electronic music being here already, i think it's no more here than computers were in the early 80s (and alot of electronic music still sounds like stuff from the early 80s, which i find very weird). that is, we're ultimately (and very soon) going to have laptops that will run anything you can throw at them seamlessly (20 instances of reaktor plus reaktorFX on each channel anyone?), we'll all have lemurs or similar personalized control surfaces, and some kid is going to grow up on nothing but electronic capability, rather than mapping the old world to the new as most folk seem to be doing, and come out with crazy transformative music that changes the paradigm. or not.

i'm thinking a world where everything sounds as weird (from the current pop perspective) as bjork's more out there stuff, whatever. problem is, the changes are always fairly subtle over time, so that you not really aware of how much things are moving until you look back from where you end up (compare later madonna albums to early, later U2 to early, later radiohead to early, later bjork to early, etc.).

[nihad]

i'm not into that many of styles/genres, but i feel that techno music has really reinvented itself through 2005 and 2006 .. and it's constantly evolving, but still with the steady 4/4, just like shuffle in jazz .. some really crazy & inovative stuff have been released and are still ..

electronic music in general and techno music in particular is evolving side by side with technology ..

you have super straight cold stuff like the hawtin minus stuff, and then you have the super organic & dynamic villalobos production (just listen to achso ep ..) ..

or why not spaced out robert henke and ultra minimalistic sleeparchive shit .. hehe

the thing is that there is really a lot coming out it's rather hard to keep track of everything .. still there are a lot of gems and i believe there will be no end to it, it will constantly evolve, recycle, reinvent ...

[err_eur]

more people are making it now than ever, but the momentum of the Techno, Electro, House, Drum and Bass, PSYTrance, Ambient, experimental scenes has waned and a lot of the music I hear lacks potency, although it is very technically advanced......so many great ideas have simply been plyed out and done to death, and it impossible to artificially emulate the explosion of the 80's and 90's in a contrived manner....the novelty of it all played a big part, as well as the more rampant consumption of psychoactive substances, which has given way to a more alcohol-dominated club scene....

remember, more advanced technology and increased skill in using it does not constitute the sole ingredients for good music-making. It is really all about the level of inspiration, enthusiasm, ingenuity and spiritual connectivity of the artist that makes great music. You may or may not be a virtuoso, you may only know three chords on a guitar but the inspiration with which you play them makes it beautiful and pleasant to listen to IMO. A lot of the old school masters are simply not very inspired anymore (I know this for a fact!) and have become burned out on the whole scene.....and a lot of younger kids just don't get the VIBE that was the driving force for the explosion of electronic music "back in the days"....there are far more restrictions now on public gathering, partying, and even DANCING (NYC cabaret laws, UK anti-RAVE laws....etc.) in most countries, and a lot of negative association with electronic music and drug abuse, making the massive international club/party scene and it's powerful underlying creative flows of energy impossible to manifest in a way anything even remotely resembling it's former self....

it's mostly people making music that will be listened to on computers, MP3 players, etc......as opposed to a club or party....especially in the USA (shithole)

So my answer is the amount of electronic music being created is growing in quantity, but shrinking in quality (not "sound" quality, but "soul" quality)


the electronic music scene has become overcommercialized and has been stagnating intensely since 2001-2002.........with of course a few exceptions.

The best music I hear is from unknown bedroom producers, the "big" producers and DJ's of the yesterday have mostly all sold out and /or just suck................

[Pitch Black]

alot of electronic music still sounds like stuff from the early 80s, which i find very weird.

That's the ol' 20-year nostalgia-cycle in full effect! Which, adjusted for inflation, is actually starting to run at approx 15.4 years.

Interesting talking about the perceived "newness" of electronica. Because of the connection with technology, electronica tends to get thought of, and sold as, "futurism" which of course sits just fine with the music industry ethos of the next big thing. So you had the 80s/90s mainstream crossover of Hip-Hop, House, Techno. Styles emerge, flower, decline. "Dance Music"tm, the "New Thing" was the soundtrack to the 90s and now it's Garage Rock-with-a-twist, or New Wave-with-a-twist and officially (ie as far as the mainstream goes) bands are back, baby.

People tire of futurism, and they want to retreat into comfortable nostalgia and retro-ism. Retro-ism can take many forms, from concious authentic revival, to sub-concious references by the musucian, to post-modern irony, all the way to parody. Then we all get sick of retro and hanker for futurism again.....

Fuckin' humans, eh?

[dj superflat]

what i find really weird is that the retro folk nonetheless think they are alternative or cutting edge. that is, sounding like new wave/punk is your parent's music, and most of the outfits were dated twentyfive years ago (i laugh everytime a see a kid trying to wear docs and braces with attitude). similarly, sounding like propaganda or devo by definition can't be innovative (though it may nonetheless be good music). i can't wait til the guitar rock bands wake up and realize they're playing the equivalent of bluegrass in 1970s -- still potentially great music, relevant to people's lives, but definitely not groundbreaking.

as for futurism, my favorite is an episode of buck rogers from the early 80s, the band at the dance in the 21st century is playing some sort of electronic stuff, buck tells them to loosen up, they effectively start playing superfreak. awesome.

[Angstrom]

as for futurism, my favorite is an episode of buck rogers from the early 80s, the band at the dance in the 21st century is playing some sort of electronic stuff, buck tells them to loosen up, they effectively start playing superfreak. awesome.

I saw that episode recently on a daytime re-run, that was fucking hillarious.

in fact .. all you kids, you think Electronic music is dead? get yourselves some rope-lights and start tippedy tappin on some illuminated tables, woo crosshands!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y96jIzAXURw&


Andromeda!

[FaX-01]

I would like to see a return to the less "genre" centric approach that encroached and engulfed the scene in the mid 90's and onwards.
Personally I do not feel electronic music is dying by any stretch of the imagination.
What we are starting to see is a greater growth in the forms of sonic expression that people explore in the area of electronics and music though.
If anything there is a broader movement away from just the realm of the dancefloor which is a good thing IMHO.
Sure we all like a dirty funky groove or some spun out euphoric mayhem but there is much beauty to be found in subtle and more freeform areas of electronic musical expression also.
My only real problem is with the number of followers to any given stylistic norm within the electronic community.
If you play bass guitar , guitar , keys , strings , brass etc you generally strive to find your own voice and unique technique within the realm of possibilities through the instruments offered to you.
I feel it's more important for us all too find our own unique and individual voice within the world of electronic composition in general than it is to worry about wether or not such music is still popular, growing and/or commercially viable.
There is some truly beautiful material out there with favourites of mine being Monolake , Murcof , Tweaker , Akufen , Mouse on Mars , MuM , Telefon Tel Aviv , David Sylvian , Flanger , Atom Heart , Burnt Friedman , Underworld , etc and so on and so forth.
I'm also enjoying alot of the hybridised styles comming out that marry say the clicks and cuts aesthetic with classical and jazz fusion and all areas in between (Erik Truffaz for example has done some amazing solo trumpet collabs with certain artists as of late).
Then again I like to sit down and actually LISTEN to music as opposed to alot of the MUZAK around today that is nothin more than aural fast food at worst and musical wallpaper at best.
It definately is NOT all doom and gloom however.

[Pitch Black]

OLD IS THE NEW NEW

[forge]

we'll all have lemurs or similar personalized control surfaces, and some kid is going to grow up on nothing but electronic capability, rather than mapping the old world to the new as most folk seem to be doing, and come out with crazy transformative music that changes the paradigm. or not..

EXACTLY - totally agree with that, that's kind of what I was getting at

[forge]

alot of electronic music still sounds like stuff from the early 80s, which i find very weird.

That's the ol' 20-year nostalgia-cycle in full effect! Which, adjusted for inflation, is actually starting to run at approx 15.4 years.
:

that could be down to the fact that kids are growing up faster!

there's been some great comments in this thread

RE: the buck rogers thing - I still remember vividly a radio ad in about 1986 where it was set in the future and some kid was listening to this weird spun out electronic stuff and the mum said "what is that rubbish you're listening to? when I was your age we had real music like talking heads!"

even then as a 10 year old I remember thinking "cool, I want that music the kid was listening to!"

I agree it's the inspiration that drives it, and I'm sure the next really inspiring thing is just round the corner - someone round here once made a comment that just before the beatles there was a bit of stagnant period in music - they always happen

but I think we've been catching up with technology to a certain degree and as it gets more digested then I think it will become less genre oriented and just become the normal sounds in music, so people will really push the boat out and maybe go back to writing real songs but with 21c backing - I think the beatles would have kept on the technology route - arguably people like the chemical brothers can be said to have kept going where they left off with tracks like "tomorrow never knows"

I think the new thing in electronic music will be for people to forget all about the seperation between electronic and guitar based music that happend in the 90s and just make music again

but alot of this depends on what people are talking about when they say "electronic music"