Had enough of VSTs

Lewby · Post by **Lewby** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:15 pm

I think they're holding me back.

I'm going back to my roots. Just live, impulse, simpler, a hard-disk full of samples, and one VST effect - a compressor with sidechain.

Anyone else simplifying the process?

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:21 pm

I had bad experience with VSTs.
I'm doubtful but I could return back to my external gear.
My only concern is tied to the workflow.
When using external gear I have to record MIDI and then render to audio by playing the MIDI tracks one at a time and record the result on an Audio track.
This process is time consuming.
When using VSTs all comes out faster : you record MIDI and you have audio at the same time. If you to render it you can even flatten track in Live 6.
The VST path is thinner in terms of what you have to carry with you, even inside the house. One PC, a USB keyboard. While using external gear you have to take into account the extra stuff.
Simpler is not enough for me, but I sampled some of the most used pads from my external gear and now i can use it as well.
Any suggestion welcomed to simplify my workflow!

romflom · Post by **romflom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:17 pm

With a atari and some nice hardware you can also make some kick ass tunes

Play, tweak, arrange, record.

Just an example.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:24 pm

I went thru this about two years ago. I realized that I was getting spoiled by loops and VSTIs. The sounds were getting thin, the mixes boring. I had hundreds of plugs and demos and just too many choices.

I then went back to hardware and bought two critical synths - JP8080 and Virus-C. I dumped most of my plugs, and as for VST synths, I only have Sytrus and Operator for FM, with my subtractive synths covered by the hardware.

Granted my workflow is harder now...with VSTIs, you get really spoiled with sample accurate timing. When I went back to hardware, I realized how sloppy midi timing can be. So now, here's my process:
1. Record midi phrase
2. Trigger hardware with midi phrase
3. Record the audio (which is phatter and nicer than most softsynths)
4. Take the recorded audio into Arrange
5. Zoom into each note and time correct using split and move functions in Live (I should mention that the AutoHotKey script that allows for mouse-scroll-wheel zooming is beyond value in my new process).

Also, I generally stick to Live plugs. There's been some talk of quality, and while I agree that Live's plugs are designed for Live usage, and as such are lower in CPU, I think that if you know how to use the plugs well, they can sound as good as "better" more CPU-hungry plugs.

Having simplified, I think I get a lot more done, and I'm a lot more creative. Too many options means too many decisions to make, and not enough music making. A constant-blue-balls scenario for me.

polyslax · Post by **polyslax** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:27 pm

Sure, things are never static. The ebb and flow of vstis is as old as... well, ok it's not that old, but it happens. You'll trim back, then you'll crave a few, then a few more, then you'll become overwhelmed with choice and ditch the lot of them... only to start over again.

I've got way too many at the moment, even though I just sold 5 of them.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:30 pm

Which ones have you sold? And would anyone care to sell Microtonic?

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:43 pm

I don't quite understand "trashing" all your vst's though. I mean I have several hundred vst's on this computer but I only end up using about a dozen on a regultar basis. I found the ones that work for me and then I tend to avoid the other ones. but I don't need to trash them per say. once in a while when I am a little board and I'm looking for something a little different then I can go digging.

they do make you lazy though but only if you let them.

polyslax · Post by **polyslax** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:52 pm

nebulae wrote:Which ones have you sold? And would anyone care to sell Microtonic?

The 5 I sold recently were:

Octopus
RMIV
CamelSpace
CamelPhat
Nitro

Nah, I wouldn't sell my µTonic.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:03 pm

I can understand RMIV and Octopus, but why sell the Camels and Nitro?

polyslax · Post by **polyslax** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:12 pm

nebulae wrote:I can understand RMIV and Octopus, but why sell the Camels and Nitro?

Just never used 'em. There was a time a used Nitro quite a bit but I haven't touched it in a long while. I bought the Camels when they came out. They sound great but I wasn't using them. I literally never used Phat in a track, and I used Space once or twice.

Just the way I am I guess. If I don't feel a thing any more, it goes. Last year I sold:

Reason
Albino
Vanguard
Tera
Absynth
Cameleon 5000

One thing I am considering selling is the original Korg Legacy with the controller.

glu · Post by **glu** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:20 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:I don't quite understand "trashing" all your vst's though. I mean I have several hundred vst's on this computer but I only end up using about a dozen on a regultar basis. I found the ones that work for me and then I tend to avoid the other ones. but I don't need to trash them per say. once in a while when I am a little board and I'm looking for something a little different then I can go digging.

they do make you lazy though but only if you let them.

I agree here. So how do you organize your VSTi's, meaning the ones you use, and the ones you don't use that often. On PC, can you just create different subfolders in the main VST folder to prioritize?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:12 pm

glu wrote:So how do you organize your VSTi's, meaning the ones you use, and the ones you don't use that often. On PC, can you just create different subfolders in the main VST folder to prioritize?

Yes you can. But the best way to do it is:

Ones I use: "vst"-folder.

Ones I don't use: Delete.

glu · Post by **glu** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:32 pm

that makes sense, but honestly just because I don't use some, doesn't mean I won't have time to play with them later! But thanks for that advice... I will make a folder called shiite i don't use for now and one called "use me biotch"

hmm.. that should help!

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:53 pm

nebulae wrote: I then went back to hardware and bought two critical synths - JP8080 and Virus-C.

They are both software synths as is for example a Nord Lead.
Software running on a bunch of DSP chips.
-->> The Virus is also available for TC Powercore & the Digidesign platform.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:58 pm

Software running on a bunch of DSP chips is just more reliable than running on computers CPU (Or it should be TI??)
Polyslax I wanna buy Legacy (let me know if you end up sellin it).