Ableton! Tighten the Sequencer!

[knotkranky]

simply record a long pass with external or internal sounds, preferably with some midi that has real world density, and then record a second identical pass. Now, flip the phase or zoom in and take a look. For sync, consider the diff between beat clock and mtc. Oh, and try some differnt tempos. Cheers

That assumes there would be no midi drift coming from the output of the external sound module or synth. All hardware synths and modules can only work within certain limits so 100% total accuracy cannot be achieved. A phase test is not conclusive a vsti is a different matter and I think the test could be done using one of those.
Sync again is a different matter and can be a number of factors contributing. If there is any problems I suspect its the midi sync clock but Im not going to be hard on ableton for that. I havent yet to this day used a 100% accurate midi clock from any of the daws including pro tools and it seems to be a problem linked to audio for all daws.

This test will only reveal a degree of accuracy from its baseline within a users method.

To check how much an external box is accurate, double buss the kick, hat and snr
midi to internal and external sound sources at the same time and record.
Record again separately and reference against your baseline and the grid.
Make sure to begin with a 100% quantized beat. It's important to test with a
tyical midi density that a programmer would use.

The test is not to achieve accuracy but expose what one has to begin with.

I agree with deva "and" waverider. Yet, Abe's would like to dip into all music/audio demographics.
They don't outright say which is most important, but their releases and chosen improvements show their priorities.
For this, live is strictly a compositional tool for me and I've made peace with what live
can and cannot do so well and I hope for greater facility with pt in time. It really doesn't matter in many ways.
We all bought it, upgraded it and talk/bitch about it. Ableton is pleased regardless. Great for some, tolerable for others and the rest move on.

It's just silly not to vote yes for tighter midi.

[leisuremuffin]

how is it silly if i don't experience any "looseness" ?

.lm.

[Spiralgroove]

at this point i pretty much think anybody that comes on here talking shit about ableton are just trolling

maybe 2% of complaints are legitimate
and its usually people with very unique setups or working conditions

that is false, if you do not get the problem then you are not using a lot of midi messages

typically 4-8 midi tracks and ive never noticed a problem...

:shrug:

[knotkranky]

how is it silly if i don't experience any "looseness" ?

.lm.

Tighter is better whether leisuremuffin experiences it or not.

It does not serve the live community to chose not to improve. Does live have the tightest midi you've heard?
If no, then it stands to push Abe's for more improvement. In this situation, yes is better than no for every
single person who uses live. No moves nothing forward.

Do you have enough midi programming experience to take responsibility for a no vote?

[frankie123]

Did these keyboards have sequencers of their own or are you talking about just sending midi notes to external synths for playback from ableton lives sequencer.
You cant just say I synced two keyboards its doesnt make sense, lack of info.

I slaved these keyboards to ableton.

To slave an external thing means you would be sending a midi clock from ableton to those two keyboards. A keyboard is something that plays sounds. or does your keyboards have internal sequencers??>?????????>?>????? If not you are talking about loose midi timing and thats a whole different ball game and could be a number of factors. If you use one of those midi ports built in to a sound card you can easily get timing eccentrics.

One of my keyboards midi is being controlled via usb. The other is going direct into a digi002

[leisuremuffin]

how is it silly if i don't experience any "looseness" ?

.lm.

Tighter is better whether leisuremuffin experiences it or not.

It does not serve the live community to chose not to improve. Does live have the tightest midi you've heard?
If no, then it stands to push Abe's for more improvement. In this situation, yes is better than no for every
single person who uses live. No moves nothing forward.

Do you have enough midi programming experience to take responsibility for a no vote?

Look, man, i know how it is with you, you think you know more than me, are more qualified than me, and a whole bunch of other bullshit. What the fuck ever, man. On my computer the midi sequencer is "tight" It doesn't drift or anything like that. Yes, sync is fucked up, but thats not what you're talking about. Your saying that the sequencer is somehow inaccurate... Well, i'm telling you right now, that that is not the case over here. If it is for you or someone else, i'm sorry, but i can't tell you that it's fucked up when it isn't for me.



.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

Do you have enough midi programming experience to take responsibility for a no vote?

Actually, it's funny you should ask, because last time i checked, you were an engineer, and i was an electronic musician. So, yeah, i think i at least have more experience with midi than you, hommes. I've been using midi for more than a decade.




.lm.

[kineticUk]

Look, man, i know how it is with you, you think you know more than me, are more qualified than me, and a whole bunch of other bullshit. What the fuck ever, man.

Theres too much of this sort of thing.I hear you there lm.
But sync is pretty good here (have not tried v.6 yet).
If people are talkin about just gettin Live as tight as possible its a valid request, still no need to treat people like this.My opinion (Who gives a fuk right?)

[leisuremuffin]

i don't know, man... that cat just gets on my nerves.

and i'm sorry, but playing back quantized notes, i don't think live is going to be different from anyhting else.

if we're talking about latency and quantization features and lots of bells and whistles that can be added, yeah, therres room a plenty. And there's lots of apps out there that do more intensive midi, but not "tighter sequencer" jesus christ, it's just fucking ridiculous.



.lm.

[frankie123]

i don't know, man... that cat just gets on my nerves.

and i'm sorry, but playing back quantized notes, i don't think live is going to be different from anyhting else.

if we're talking about latency and quantization features and lots of bells and whistles that can be added, yeah, therres room a plenty. And there's lots of apps out there that do more intensive midi, but not "tighter sequencer" jesus christ, it's just fucking ridiculous.



.lm.

I think we can all agree that the quantization features in ableton are pretty weak.

[leisuremuffin]

well, i don't really need any more options for it, but if you do, cool ask for them. That's different from saying the sequencer's timing is fucked up.


.lm.

[knotkranky]

how is it silly if i don't experience any "looseness" ?

.lm.

Tighter is better whether leisuremuffin experiences it or not.

It does not serve the live community to chose not to improve. Does live have the tightest midi you've heard?
If no, then it stands to push Abe's for more improvement. In this situation, yes is better than no for every
single person who uses live. No moves nothing forward.

Do you have enough midi programming experience to take responsibility for a no vote?

Look, man, i know how it is with you, you think you know more than me, are more qualified than me, and a whole bunch of other bullshit. What the fuck ever, man. On my computer the midi sequencer is "tight" It doesn't drift or anything like that. Yes, sync is fucked up, but thats not what you're talking about. Your saying that the sequencer is somehow inaccurate... Well, i'm telling you right now, that that is not the case over here. If it is for you or someone else, i'm sorry, but i can't tell you that it's fucked up when it isn't for me.



.lm.

Hey wait a minute, no worries man. You asked me a question and I don't dispute your experience. But it's not about you and it's not about me. I see more than half the poll giving Abe's a green light to leave the midi issue as is! Really? I have a problem with that and I want tighter more comprehensive midi in this cool software that I like.

Dude, for the record, I've been making noise since 1982. I remember when there was no midi and I got into it the minute it came out. Any self respecting engineer knows plenty about midi. I've sync'd enough gadgets, computers, clocks and crazy formats with enough 10 place offsets to kill stephen hawking. Not a boast, cause I don't give two shits.

No worries lm. You are fortunate to be happy with the way things are. But some of use need it better and that would be no foul to you. We wouldn't be using live if we didn't like it that much.

[DeadlyKungFu]

Can someone post a .als that exhibits their side of the issue?

[leisuremuffin]

yeah, man, here's the problem, more comprehensive is different from "more tight"
(just like "it needs to be more cpu efficient" is different from, "it's unreliable and buggy" remember that?)


I'm all for more comprehensive (not that i need it personally), but it's as tight as it's gonna get, my man.


I'm just making it clear, that once you have midi data recorded in live, it plays back just as you would expect. it's not somehow more loose than any other sequencer.



frankly i don't give a shit either, but you've played this bullshit game of, "i know more than you" with me before, and i'm not gonna stand for it. I don't like stuck up engineer snobs like you. I've worked with plenty of em.





.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

Can someone post a .als that exhibits their side of the issue?

how could they? the notes are going to look the same.

what somebody needs to post is an audio file made from a midi clip playing back "sloppy" midi.