Had enough of VSTs

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:34 pm

If you're disciplined then vsts can be a great cheap source of a huge variety of sounds. If you're less disciplined, like me, vsts can be a never-ending distraction and an impediment to making music and, ultimately, a frustration.

It's also very easy to get too distracted visually using software sequencers and instruments. You start to focus on how the music looks instead of how it sounds. Hardware can be a good way to get away from this but investing some time on a good controller layout that gets you away from the screen can help too.

Recently I've been working with an MPC and a Virus as my only instruments and I can't say I'm finding it all that limiting. I can't make every sound I could with all my plugins but I've got more than enough power to get my ideas across. It's very easy with all the amazingly powerful vsts out now to mislead yourself into thinking you *need* all that flexibility.

frisbeedisk · Post by **frisbeedisk** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:42 pm

yeh me too. throw them all in the bin

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:49 pm

glu wrote:I have learned to record the triton in as audio, and its actually good musicianship practice to not have the ability to quantise. I used to use quatise all the time when I sequenced in the triton, now I find I can play a lot tighter- both on guitar and on keys, knowing that I have to get the take right and that I can't fix it by moving a little square.

This is a very important point too. If you know you can fix everything in the midi editor you get lazy and start playing less and editing more. The results are just a lot less interesting. Lately I've been making sure that every synth patch I use has some kind of mod-wheel control and I've been actually playing all my parts and redoing them if I mess something up and I'm coming up with better stuff and my keyboard skills are starting to improve.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:57 pm

Lewby wrote:I think they're holding me back.

I'm going back to my roots. Just live, impulse, simpler, a hard-disk full of samples, and one VST effect - a compressor with sidechain.

Anyone else simplifying the process?

I dont disagree with you on this. for a while now I have so tried to use VSTis but cant really get them to fit at all. i think its the marriage of so many different sound sources? In my old ays I never had such a wide choice of sound sources and i think thats the problem. Its like eq as well if you use many different types on a mix the mix can be less than stellar in my experience so I tend to try and use only one eq using multiple instances just like I would have when I used a console.

go back to your roots man. Simpler and impulse is really all you need.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:59 pm

romflom wrote:With a atari and some nice hardware you can also make some kick ass tunes
Play, tweak, arrange, record.

Just an example.

true and someone else mentioned the other day they are still using an atari. One thing I miss is not looking at the screen all the time with the atari this was never a problem.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:05 pm

I liken it very much to what most guitarists go through at some point, or at many points.
You start of with your guitar and amp, and maybe there is distortion box you get. Oh and a chorus is a necessity after than. Then you realize how fun delay is to play with. Now a phaser and/or flanger really trips things. That distortion sound is getting old, need a new one. Maybe a few different distortions. Damn I need a wah-pedal. A couple of 'em! Another reverb won't hurt. Ok now we need a compressor/limiter for those solos. Pitch-shifter? space-echo? supre-duper-transmogrifying tone-twister? And then you notice those nice all-in-one effect boxes. gotta get that! oh but those stomp boxes with the tubes inside, gotta get those as well. OOh a guitar simulator! amp modellors!.....

And then you look at all your junk and go; "fuck it. i just wanna play. Clean amp with some overdrive. that's all please...."

but I just gotta get my wah back..... and chorus.... and then it starts again.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:22 pm

I enjoyed this thread. I read that hardware manufacturers did their best year 2005 since 2000 so it looks like hardware is fighting back. makes sense to me as i just heard a couple of the new roland synths and they did sound better than any plugin I have heard and not just a little better either. The roalnd MPV was also tried out and with that and a couple of their synths that would be a monster setup. I want one of those MPVs for sure totally blow away the mpc.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:30 pm

hoffman2k wrote: Gotta love the A's (Ableton, Alphakanal, Audiorealism, Audiodamage)

Analogue.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:45 pm

nebulae wrote: I've also heard this might be the case with some friends who have a Virus TI - they say they'd rather use the analog outputs instead of the USB-SoftSynth version. They say it just sounds better. (Tarekith will likely disagree.)

Why do you say that? There's very probably a difference in sound between the direct USB stream, and the analog outs (which use excellent D/A's). It's a slight difference, but I could see that some people might rather use the analog outs.

I personally like the direct USB stream, but it's all a personal choice.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:55 pm

I knew you'd disagree...goddamnit, you're always looking for a fight. To think they actually put you on the useful list...

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:56 pm

glu wrote:I have learned to record the triton in as audio, and its actually good musicianship practice to not have the ability to quantise. I used to use quatise all the time when I sequenced in the triton, now I find I can play a lot tighter- both on guitar and on keys, knowing that I have to get the take right and that I can't fix it by moving a little square. Somethings absolutely require quantisation for the specific style one is going for, but for most of the stuff i record from the triton, i do it thru audio. So far it's only helped me get better at playing, and I still find myself cranking out tunes... more than usual this season actually.

just my experience...

100% agree with all you said, I rarely mess with midi anymore. Ultimately it was faster for me in the long runt o get better at playing keys and recrod as audio, then endless revisioning I was doing with MIDI.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:57 pm

nebulae wrote:I knew you'd disagree...goddamnit, you're always looking for a fight. To think they actually put you on the useful list...

you're right, a person should always agree with you even if they have something insightful to share.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:57 pm

nebulae wrote:I knew you'd disagree...goddamnit, you're always looking for a fight. To think they actually put you on the useful list...

I did agree with you actually.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:11 pm

I am going to build this (Because I have no money for a modular) the harder way: with patchcables instead of routing switches.
If you're willing to learn how to solder & shit... it's CHEAP the PCB is $30 and parts should be around $60 and it sounds REALLY good (listen to the MP3s on the website.) Oh and you might want a MIDI to CV converter. (Doepfer!)

Patching stuff through real analogue circuitry before recording it into Live is a very satisfying thing to do. (but it will give you a headache building it if you don't know much about electronics like me!)

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/anal ... ndlab.html

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:08 am

Tarekith wrote:
nebulae wrote:I knew you'd disagree...goddamnit, you're always looking for a fight. To think they actually put you on the useful list...
I did agree with you actually.

I know. I was being sarcastical.

Had enough of VSTs

Re: Had enough of VSTs