tumbleDry wrote:the issue at hand does not relate to drift free external midi to software timelocked sequencing or hardware control!!
my kit list and pc configuration is beside the point. i have used many configurations over the years. (current.. evolution mk449c controller, m-audio delta44 on desktop etc etc hardware... & audigy on laptop. it does not make a difference if its wdm or asio. this puter or that. i do my testing via mouse input to grid)
yes, midi has a bad rep and i am not new. ive been making music since roland released their first groovebox mc303 then moved to pc sequencing when logic audio released dicovery version and ever since felt the loss of tight grooves.
the underrated unprofessioanl kiddy midi software sequencers like fruityloops, energyxt does smack to the beat sequencing and is bringing the groove back for "me" without having the need to move about hardware.
the page, as it is from... http://www.mpc2000xl.com/mpc_timing.htm (not me!!!)
better states my concern but only refers to hardware witout any consideration of the emualtions such as rebirth338 QUOTE*****>Think there's a difference in the versions of the MPC? Here's a note from one of the experts:
Someone wrote in repsonse to my "no one's going to tell what sequencer you are using":
> Obviously it's true that in the end result no one will be able to tell what sequencer you used, but YOU'LL certainly be able to tell while you're using it. Different sequencers do have a different feel, not so much in "sloppiness", but in how they record your playing with different "swing" settings.
Sevo replied:
There is no "swing" magic in any MPC. Timing-wise, there is no difference between the 2000 and 60/3000 other than the 60/3000 have twice the MIDI outs and hence, less likelyhood MIDI jams. All MPCs are solid 96ppqn MIDI sequencers (as tight as MIDI can be, which is not that much anyway) with a absolutely tight internal drum sequencer with zero delay between multiple simultaneous instruments. There is no particular groove magic going on in any MPC - the swing and note shift features are static, faultless and perform no more magic than their counterparts on any mid-eighties software sequencer. If you are looking for advanced shuffle and humanize functions, you'll have to switch off quantizing and play them by hand - or use a big software sequencer and suffer its sloppy MIDI timing.
Someone also said:
> This isn't too important in electronic dance music where you don't really use a swing setting at all, but for other forms - particularly R&B - it can make a huge difference to the composer. I know for a fact that my Linn 9000 has a different swing feel to any software sequencer I've used, and that's why I still use it today.
Sevo states:
The Linn 9000 has no swing magic either! If you are hearing a difference, it will be the higher mechanical precision rather than any artificial human sloppyness - humanizers are the domain of software sequencers. Or rather were - humanizers (which were the most advertized feature in the early days of Cubase and Logic) seem to be unpopular nowadays, and aren't mentioned at all in current software sequencer publicity. The Linn and MPC have realtime OSes, fully integrated sound generators, and a far, far better timing than software sequencers - even more so as the software sequencers have to pump their data through MIDI, which can't handle two events at once. But they are precise rather than magic. Try it, and plug your Linn into a harddisk recorder and count out the samples between beats - you'll see that the beats are dead on whatever grid you programmed or played rather than performing any swing of their own...
Someone also blurbed:
> I mean, if you play the same pattern using Logic to control a JP-8000 that play using an ARP sequencer to control a 2600 the listener won't care, but the composer will definitely find a difference in how they work.
Sevo's final word:
Different issue - ergonomics and conceptual models certainly shape the way you work. But that will alter the beat you write rather than its timing.
Sevo -- Sevo Stille <*****UNQUOTE
can ableton give us the OFF button for the revolutionary computerized humanized???
Re-written
I see where your coming from now but you look like your talking about feel and this is what your link is saying as well. This isnt really the same as how good lives timing is.
You may think im some sort of luddite when it comes to Live and nothing could be further from the truth. One major thing that pisses me off with live is the lack of control over the feel of my midi. Live has no groove quantise and while there may be work-arounds they are not the same as proper groove quantise. This is an area Live seriously lacks in.
I may also be able to agree with you that something like FL has a certain feel. I have only used it a little but I do remember linking it to a 303 on sync. Tight but immensley groovy. With Live I cant put my finger on it but the feel is 2 dimensional a bit lifeless-robotic. This could be imagined I dont know for sure but it is very tight and rigid.
This discussion was not about feel (but thats is what you rpost heading should haev said) . If thats what you want please add your name to groove Q on in the requests forum. Not that feel isnt a good discussion, I wish this whole thread was about that rather than lives imagined crappy timing.
