[ot] - kim jong ill, nuclear at last!

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:59 am

kim isnt going to do anything with those nukes - he wants them as a deterrent to protect himself from what he sees as a genuine threat from the US

his father before him used to be very afraid of nuclear attack from the US since the Korean war, and the fear has been passed onto him and strengthened by dubbayas "axis of evil" comments

the biggest worry there is what dubbya will do

China's worries are far more selfish - they are more concerned about millions of North Korean refugees making the journey across the bridge that joins the 2 countries if the UN starves them even more

hence the call from chinas UN ambassador to explore all dimplmatic possibilites

Kim has said he would abandon his nuclear program if the US signed a non aggression pact and agreed to not impose sanctions, but the US wont do that any time soon

violence only begets violence and the Bush administration has scared the world into this kind of behavior - and if there is a WW3 history WILL record it as strarting with the invasion of Iraq.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:09 am

forge wrote:kim isnt going to do anything with those nukes - he wants them as a deterrent to protect himself from what he sees as a genuine threat from the US

his father before him used to be very afraid of nuclear attack from the US since the Korean war, and the fear has been passed onto him and strengthened by dubbayas "axis of evil" comments

the biggest worry there is what dubbya will do

China's worries are far more selfish - they are more concerned about millions of North Korean refugees making the journey across the bridge that joins the 2 countries if the UN starves them even more

hence the call from chinas UN ambassador to explore all dimplmatic possibilites

Kim has said he would abandon his nuclear program if the US signed a non aggression pact and agreed to not impose sanctions, but the US wont do that any time soon

violence only begets violence and the Bush administration has scared the world into this kind of behavior - and if there is a WW3 history WILL record it as strarting with the invasion of Iraq.

I'd like to start with the invasion of her raq.

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:12 am

knotkranky wrote:[

I'd like to start with the invasion of her raq.

cue chris cunningham and aphex twin.....

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:12 am

forge wrote:kim isnt going to do anything with those nukes - he wants them as a deterrent to protect himself from what he sees as a genuine threat from the US

his father before him used to be very afraid of nuclear attack from the US since the Korean war, and the fear has been passed onto him and strengthened by dubbayas "axis of evil" comments

the biggest worry there is what dubbya will do

China's worries are far more selfish - they are more concerned about millions of North Korean refugees making the journey across the bridge that joins the 2 countries if the UN starves them even more

hence the call from chinas UN ambassador to explore all dimplmatic possibilites

Kim has said he would abandon his nuclear program if the US signed a non aggression pact and agreed to not impose sanctions, but the US wont do that any time soon

violence only begets violence and the Bush administration has scared the world into this kind of behavior - and if there is a WW3 history WILL record it as strarting with the invasion of Iraq.

The UN isn't starving the North Korean people, it's Kim Jong Il..... unless you are talking about inaction of the UN. The UN isn't doing shit.... because that's all they can do..... SHIT. They are a failed institution. The UN should not exist. It should be disbanded. It's completely worthless.

The USA gave in to Korth Korea in the 1990s, under Clinton. Billions of dollars given away, along with food and technology for nuclear power. The food was all given to the military. The nuclear power technology converted to weapons production.

I'm sorry man.... but these problems have been brewing LONG LONG LONG before Bush was in office. It's just silly to sit there and try to blame it on him. I know you, and most people on this board, would just LOVE for the problems to be so simple as just pointing the finger at GWB.... but it just isn't that easy. When Clinton was president, people would burn him in effigy just like they do to Bush now. No.... I'm afraid that it isn't just a Bush issue.

North Korea would absolutely sell nukes if they could. They need hard currency more than they need weapons.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:34 am

subterFUSE wrote:
forge wrote:kim isnt going to do anything with those nukes - he wants them as a deterrent to protect himself from what he sees as a genuine threat from the US

his father before him used to be very afraid of nuclear attack from the US since the Korean war, and the fear has been passed onto him and strengthened by dubbayas "axis of evil" comments

the biggest worry there is what dubbya will do

China's worries are far more selfish - they are more concerned about millions of North Korean refugees making the journey across the bridge that joins the 2 countries if the UN starves them even more

hence the call from chinas UN ambassador to explore all dimplmatic possibilites

Kim has said he would abandon his nuclear program if the US signed a non aggression pact and agreed to not impose sanctions, but the US wont do that any time soon

violence only begets violence and the Bush administration has scared the world into this kind of behavior - and if there is a WW3 history WILL record it as strarting with the invasion of Iraq.

The UN isn't starving the North Korean people, it's Kim Jong Il..... unless you are talking about inaction of the UN. The UN isn't doing shit.... because that's all they can do..... SHIT. They are a failed institution. The UN should not exist. It should be disbanded. It's completely worthless.

The USA gave in to Korth Korea in the 1990s, under Clinton. Billions of dollars given away, along with food and technology for nuclear power. The food was all given to the military. The nuclear power technology converted to weapons production.

I'm sorry man.... but these problems have been brewing LONG LONG LONG before Bush was in office. It's just silly to sit there and try to blame it on him. I know you, and most people on this board, would just LOVE for the problems to be so simple as just pointing the finger at GWB.... but it just isn't that easy. When Clinton was president, people would burn him in effigy just like they do to Bush now. No.... I'm afraid that it isn't just a Bush issue.

North Korea would absolutely sell nukes if they could. They need hard currency more than they need weapons.

It isn't about "before" bush. And clinton wanted to give him a world monitored reactor if they gave up their nukes program. Smart. Clinton kept Kim close and always dealing with U.S. policy. Bush ignored Kim, destabilized the world and exposed our military weaknesses. And now Kim Jong gets to wave his dick at us.

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:26 am

Wait a minute... I just had a brainstorm! Since Lil Kim fancies himself some sort of frustrated artist... The Abes could develop a special Korean localized version of Live 6 and gift it to him(we all know he likes cool gifts). They could throw in Sampler and Operator... EIC... and some 'ludes. That should totally mellow him out and prolly keep him distracted for decades.

beale · Post by **beale** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:56 am

It isn't about "before" bush. And clinton wanted to give him a world monitored reactor if they gave up their nukes program. Smart. Clinton kept Kim close and always dealing with U.S. policy. Bush ignored Kim, destabilized the world and exposed our military weaknesses. And now Kim Jong gets to wave his dick at us.

I totally forgot this but it shows that Clinton followed one of the oldest sayings in the world: Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:37 pm

knotkranky wrote:
subterFUSE wrote:
forge wrote:kim isnt going to do anything with those nukes - he wants them as a deterrent to protect himself from what he sees as a genuine threat from the US

his father before him used to be very afraid of nuclear attack from the US since the Korean war, and the fear has been passed onto him and strengthened by dubbayas "axis of evil" comments

the biggest worry there is what dubbya will do

China's worries are far more selfish - they are more concerned about millions of North Korean refugees making the journey across the bridge that joins the 2 countries if the UN starves them even more

hence the call from chinas UN ambassador to explore all dimplmatic possibilites

Kim has said he would abandon his nuclear program if the US signed a non aggression pact and agreed to not impose sanctions, but the US wont do that any time soon

violence only begets violence and the Bush administration has scared the world into this kind of behavior - and if there is a WW3 history WILL record it as strarting with the invasion of Iraq.

The UN isn't starving the North Korean people, it's Kim Jong Il..... unless you are talking about inaction of the UN. The UN isn't doing shit.... because that's all they can do..... SHIT. They are a failed institution. The UN should not exist. It should be disbanded. It's completely worthless.

The USA gave in to Korth Korea in the 1990s, under Clinton. Billions of dollars given away, along with food and technology for nuclear power. The food was all given to the military. The nuclear power technology converted to weapons production.

I'm sorry man.... but these problems have been brewing LONG LONG LONG before Bush was in office. It's just silly to sit there and try to blame it on him. I know you, and most people on this board, would just LOVE for the problems to be so simple as just pointing the finger at GWB.... but it just isn't that easy. When Clinton was president, people would burn him in effigy just like they do to Bush now. No.... I'm afraid that it isn't just a Bush issue.

North Korea would absolutely sell nukes if they could. They need hard currency more than they need weapons.
It isn't about "before" bush. And clinton wanted to give him a world monitored reactor if they gave up their nukes program. Smart. Clinton kept Kim close and always dealing with U.S. policy. Bush ignored Kim, destabilized the world and exposed our military weaknesses. And now Kim Jong gets to wave his dick at us.

Clinton is to blame in this situation every bit as much as Bush.... in fact, I would say even more so.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061010/pl_ ... _mccain_dc

It was his failed policies which led to this. Giving North Korea money and food and nuclear power technology, which was only put towards the military and then weapons development.

We can't, and shouldn't, be engaging North Korea in direct talks. This has proven to be the wrong way to go time and time again. North Korea has never shown an ounce of willingness to obey the will of the international community, or any agreements or treaties signed.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:19 pm

subterFUSE wrote:
knotkranky wrote:
subterFUSE wrote:
The UN isn't starving the North Korean people, it's Kim Jong Il..... unless you are talking about inaction of the UN. The UN isn't doing shit.... because that's all they can do..... SHIT. They are a failed institution. The UN should not exist. It should be disbanded. It's completely worthless.

The USA gave in to Korth Korea in the 1990s, under Clinton. Billions of dollars given away, along with food and technology for nuclear power. The food was all given to the military. The nuclear power technology converted to weapons production.

I'm sorry man.... but these problems have been brewing LONG LONG LONG before Bush was in office. It's just silly to sit there and try to blame it on him. I know you, and most people on this board, would just LOVE for the problems to be so simple as just pointing the finger at GWB.... but it just isn't that easy. When Clinton was president, people would burn him in effigy just like they do to Bush now. No.... I'm afraid that it isn't just a Bush issue.

North Korea would absolutely sell nukes if they could. They need hard currency more than they need weapons.
It isn't about "before" bush. And clinton wanted to give him a world monitored reactor if they gave up their nukes program. Smart. Clinton kept Kim close and always dealing with U.S. policy. Bush ignored Kim, destabilized the world and exposed our military weaknesses. And now Kim Jong gets to wave his dick at us.

Clinton is to blame in this situation every bit as much as Bush.... in fact, I would say even more so.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061010/pl_ ... _mccain_dc

It was his failed policies which led to this. Giving North Korea money and food and nuclear power technology, which was only put towards the military and then weapons development.

We can't, and shouldn't, be engaging North Korea in direct talks. This has proven to be the wrong way to go time and time again. North Korea has never shown an ounce of willingness to obey the will of the international community, or any agreements or treaties signed.

NK has been enriching uranium since Reagan days, but don't get me wrong. Yes, Clinton's plan failed. Bushes plan is failing and It appears NK will be strangled and starved leaving Kim Jong standing last. Blame? There will be a lot of that before the elections. Even McCain is a little out of character right now. Certainly, NK is a big pain in the ass and I'm not without agreeing with you on ways to get to NK. I certainly don't have a clue on the policies needed, but how can I trust bush's either?

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:45 pm

forge wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I'd like to start with the invasion of her raq.
cue chris cunningham and aphex twin.....

I just had an erie thought. Bush's face on the rubber johnny dude.

djimagine · Post by **djimagine** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:59 pm

Actually we almost went to war with N.Korea with aircraft carrier steaming and moving in position to strike and attack N. Korea under Clinton Adminstration it was under Carter intervention to do last minute dipolmacy to avert a war that save the day at that time with the promise of oil and economic assistance over the long run.

In fact Carter won a Peace Prize for his work I believe in fact. Now the S.Korea`s and Japanese are thankful for that even if it avert the problem to yrs later like now.

Our government is obligate to assist our allies if they are attack by N. Korea or China so Korea has been trying to blackmail the two into giving more aid and money. Once Bush found that the N. Koreans were again secretly making nukes again they cut off the oil (Hmm the same thing happen 60 odd yrs ago with Japan during the WWII and look what happen) I don`t know it your destiny to have major conflict every 60 to 70 odd yrs?

Back on track the more the supplies, funds, and agreements were cut the more the nuts got crazier. But the gun is pointed at S. Korea`s and Japan`s head if the problem get out of hand like a trigger hair too.

Some guy said to give nukes away to Japan and S. Korea not necessary both countries when not if but when they decide to can make their own in a heart beat.

As of now Japan has decided not to build any publicly, but if N.Korea fuk up that would change in a heartbeat too.

Check out Bush`s speech. This is indeed the man of the hour now.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:01 pm

subterFUSE wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote:
subterFUSE wrote:Giving nukes to Japan is a quick fix.... and doesn't harm our own interests.
Further nuclear proliferation is the absolutely WRONG answer, there are other ways to combat nukes and the people who have them than than to pass out more nukes. That's like cutting back on school shootings by handing out guns.
I respectfully disagree. I think the school example you give is slightly off-base. I think this situation is more like imposing gun control laws in the USA. The bad guys are going to get guns, by illegal means. With gun laws, you only prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves. People can violate the laws, and acquire the weapons. And without a counter balance, criminals will reign the day.

I think the school analogy does fit, we know some kid has a gun, so make some of the 'good' kids armed cops to watch the bad kids. Maybe a kid loses his gun, or sells it, or it goes off in his locker, or there's a shootout with casualties. The level of responsibility that nuclear armament requires is akin to kids playing with guns. IMO.

We disagree here, didn't Florida pass a law allowing anyone to carry a gun? That scares the hell out of me. BUT that's a whole 'nother OT rant...

If we give Japan nukes, then why not give them to India to defend themselves against Pakistan?? Then why doesn't some country give nukes to one of the MANY Israel hating countries? Using proliferation to end proliferation is a scary irony.

This is a common disagreement between left and right political views throughout the cold war, lefties wanted disarmament NOW, righties want an arms race, survival of the powerful and industrial. Righties say that in effect the US ran the Soviets out of business in the arms race and scared the shit out of them with nukes. To me that's utter madness.

You cannot simultaneously prepare for war and peace at the same time.

Dunno if this can go anywhere, it's a pretty fundamental difference between left and right.

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:19 pm

subterFUSE wrote:The UN isn't starving the North Korean people, it's Kim Jong Il..... unless you are talking about inaction of the UN. The UN isn't doing shit.... because that's all they can do..... SHIT. They are a failed institution. The UN should not exist. It should be disbanded. It's completely worthless. .

no I wasnt talking about the past

china is worried about future sanctions having the potential to create Millions of refugees

If you read my post, I said about Kim's dad being shit scared of American nukes since the Korean war and that passed on to him

so yes I know it goes back a long way

the point I was making is that Bush is not likely to solve it because he is EXACTLY the type to fulfil Kim's worst fears - like the McCarthyists of our era

the Bush's of this world's idealogies are not peacful ones - the outcome for people like him is always war

N.Korea cant actually mount their nukes in missiles - they are not for offence - they are to stop the US invading him

and to be honest if I was him I'd probably feel the same way

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:10 pm

simpleton wrote:Wait a minute... I just had a brainstorm! Since Lil Kim fancies himself some sort of frustrated artist... The Abes could develop a special Korean localized version of Live 6 and gift it to him(we all know he likes cool gifts). They could throw in Sampler and Operator... EIC... and some 'ludes. That should totally mellow him out and prolly keep him distracted for decades.

uh, I don't know...

"Yo yo, DJ KJI comin' AT ya ...

Anti-socialist traitor, behave with discretion!
I got the nuke missizzles aimed in your direction!
You politically illiterate human scum!
I take the Taepodong and put it up your Bum!

Bloodthirsty bloodsucker!
Capitalist muthaf**ker!
You ultra-right gangster bitch talking c**ksucker!

Loudmouthed running dog,
You black-hearted lackey
swollen-headed reactionary
half-baked flunkey...

You imperialist lackey, your accusation against the DPRK is no more than barking at the moon
Go and ask your mama she'll be calling you home soon.

break it down..."

props to ...
http://www.nk-news.net/extras/insult_generator.php

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:27 pm

Ugh!
Kim Jong Ill on the sneak tip biotch

Come off that bamboo hat bitch!

drop those chop sticks or catch a hot one ho!

ugh

Kim Jong Ill true G numero uno breaking ho's and making duckets

you got beef, don't bring it to Korea - RICE FOR LIKE BIOTCH!