[ot] - kim jong ill, nuclear at last!

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:15 am

sweetjesus wrote:my predictions for the next 10 years

north and south korea will merge and be known as 'pebble'
japan will be renamed to 'sand'
taiwan will be called Tai-was

that's a tad bleak

what will Australia be?

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:39 am

forge wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:my predictions for the next 10 years

north and south korea will merge and be known as 'pebble'
japan will be renamed to 'sand'
taiwan will be called Tai-was
that's a tad bleak

what will Australia be?

Oy! Oy! Oy!

glu · Post by **glu** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:48 am

forge wrote: what will Australia be?

The Future Glu wrote: this is what's left mate

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:52 am

glu wrote:
forge wrote: what will Australia be?

The Future Glu wrote: this is what's left mate

well at least the drought will be over!

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:42 pm

I just ended up on this tangent

in the first article read from the "japanese occupation" bit on, about half way down

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

there's some real history there and you can see why the Japanese are most worried about all this

they call it the forgotten war and I knew hardly anythign about it except hawkeye, klinger and hotlips hulahan worked in the medical tent there

actually reading over that history and hearing Kim jong Illin' calling sanctions an "act of war" makes me wonder if he isnt actually planning another invasion akin to June 1950 - reasoning the US is pre-occupied elsewhere and the Nukes will stop them interfering

You can guarantee "re-unification" is never far from his mind

maybe he thinks now is a good time

if you read over that history the whole taiwan issue is never far away either

china got involved later on then - would they this time?

Harry S Truman worried then that the Korean war was WW3

maybe what wasnt finished in 1953 has waited until now

the crazy thing is the figures of the dead and the enourmous cost of that war and it hardly ever gets mentioned

I had no Idea there were nearly half a million US troops sent, 63, 000 British and 17, 000 Australian - in proportion of population compared to Britain at that time that is a huge relative number of Australian troops for an Australian citizen to have never heard of - we're always reminded of WW1 and 2 and vietnam

the war was never resolved and ended in stalemate, with N. Korea left with a grudge against the Japanese and US and still a strong desire to reunify, along with the memory that the US/UN couldnt defeat them last time and the knowledge the US is tied up in a complete mess in Iraq with the possibility of expansion of the conflict there, whether they or the Israelis spearhead it

just saying

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:57 pm

forge wrote:
the crazy thing is the figures of the dead and the enourmous cost of that war and it hardly ever gets mentioned

just saying

Seriously, most people have no idea. Do you know about the wars in Northern Italy and Greece just after World War II? East Timor is another woefully under reported war. Perhaps it is coincidental that the States financed and supported the faction that commited genocide. I was reading the other day about how the Allies after World War II removed Nazi agents from Germany and installed them around Europe and South America to keep down worker uprising. How could they get away with this? It's almost not worth thinking about.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:05 pm

forge wrote: maybe what wasnt finished in 1953 has waited until now

just saying

oh you have no idea how right you are there... just a different facet:

some things which happened in 1953:

Tony Blair, George Tenet & Jeb Bush were born
USA Made the Hbomb
USA made nuclear missiles
Castro rose to power
the brits made the CIA overthrow the iranian government of the time

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:01 am

And so it begins?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00135.html

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:04 pm

hoffman2k wrote:And so it begins?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00135.html

...Unlikely. A North Korean "declaration of war" is like your little brother threatening to get you wet when you're both floating in the same swimming pool already.

A state of war already exists between the North and the South (and the South's allies). The North never actually repealed their declaration of war from the 1950's. It's only a fifty plus year cease-fire.

Ill Kim wants to preserve his rule above all else - he won't go to open war until his army starts to starve and he needs to redirect his military Southward to avoid a coup d'etat.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:22 pm

sweetjesus wrote:some things which happened in 1953:

Tony Blair, George Tenet & Jeb Bush were born
USA Made the Hbomb
USA made nuclear missiles
Castro rose to power
the brits made the CIA overthrow the iranian government of the time

Castro rose to power in 1959.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:23 pm

sweetjesus wrote:
forge wrote: maybe what wasnt finished in 1953 has waited until now

just saying
oh you have no idea how right you are there... just a different facet:

some things which happened in 1953:

Tony Blair, George Tenet & Jeb Bush were born
USA Made the Hbomb
USA made nuclear missiles
Castro rose to power
the brits made the CIA overthrow the iranian government of the time

Here is a thing, this is a thing that is gnawing at me, and the above is the example: the Iranian overthrow is *the thing* that the Iranian extremist anti-US hardliners are pissed off about. In general, sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about. Governments manipulate each other, manipulate populations, it happens, and it affects real people.

Now, I think I am not wrong in typifying the everyday American response to be "Damn, all of this sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about! They can work themselves up to get just as pissed off about it today! That's crazy, move on, get over it!"

Now of course, you say that to someone who was involved in those things, you are only hurting them more. How is it possible to reconcile that view with the people who are so emotionally invested in what happened that long ago?

[edit] it seems like both extremes are crazy, but there should be some median reasonable point.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:26 pm

mikemc wrote:Here is a thing, this is a thing that is gnawing at me, and the above is the example: the Iranian overthrow is *the thing* that the Iranian extremist anti-US hardliners are pissed off about. In general, sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about. Governments manipulate each other, manipulate populations, it happens, and it affects real people.

Now, I think I am not wrong in typifying the everyday American response to be "Damn, all of this sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about! They can work themselves up to get just as pissed off about it today! That's crazy, move on, get over it!"

Now of course, you say that to someone who was involved in those things, you are only hurting them more. How is it possible to reconcile that view with the people who are so emotionally invested in what happened that long ago?

What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

rtopia · Post by **rtopia** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:29 pm

forge wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:my predictions for the next 10 years

north and south korea will merge and be known as 'pebble'
japan will be renamed to 'sand'
taiwan will be called Tai-was
that's a tad bleak

what will Australia be?

see...

Mad Max
Mad Max Road Warrior
Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome

- r

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:30 pm

mikemc wrote:Now, I think I am not wrong in typifying the everyday American response to be "Damn, all of this sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about! They can work themselves up to get just as pissed off about it today! That's crazy, move on, get over it!"

I would presume that these are the same americans who also believe that the british and french still "owe" them for liberating/helping them out 60 years ago during the war...

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:57 pm

noisetonepause wrote:What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

Chopped off their heads?

You're mistaken. No NATO forces chop off people's heads. That's Al-Zarqawi and his Al-Qaeda pig-fucker friends you're thinking of.

As far as living the good life goes, hey man - I've earned my good life, and I haven't taken anything away from anybody. I'm a net contributor to society and the world as a whole. People around the world are better off for my being here and doing what I do, even though just slightly. Your Taliban buddies there Paws are the opposite - they're parasites who make life worse for the people around them in every way.

Ultimately, I don't accept your blame that somehow the world's problems are the fault of my society. If people living in an ignorant, dogmatic, midieval society ever decide to embrace rationality and secularism, maybe they could enjoy the same benefits that we (the North / West) do.