I'm very happy with my FCB1010 and would be using two if they were not that big.
Old Electrix Repeater users
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Per Boysen
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The truth is that it comes with a bunch of pre-sets that send out a lot of midi messages at the same time. Probably designed for use with some Behringer guitar pre amp and making perfectly sense in that environment. But for customers not knowing this I can sure see there might pop up a certain element of frustration
I'm very happy with my FCB1010 and would be using two if they were not that big.
I'm very happy with my FCB1010 and would be using two if they were not that big.
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Guest
yeah, they're definitely programmed to work with their v-amps. To get it to do just what you want in Live (or for anything but a v-amp), you definitely have to program the patches to do just what you want. This makes sense though, each user has something different they are trying to accomplish with the 1010. Its ease of programmability, and the amount of information you can send with just one patch make it the diggity. For people afraid of midi and midi programming, then the 1010 might required some midi 101. But once you grasp the midi concepts and how you can use the different commands to control Live, its on!
Ryan
Ryan
Hey "guest", I'm not either slagging Live at all or afraid of computers. I use Live on stage as well as the Repeater, as I said before. Why ? Because with Live you can't :
- overdub indefinitely
- trigger start or record by playing your instrument (as Polar - part of Digital Performer - can do after adjusting the amount of signal that will trigger recording)
That makes a BIG difference. Means to get the same results with Live, I would have to arm the track, hit play, edit my loop etc. instead of pushing a foot switch twice with my hands still on the instrument (double bass !). I did tried to avoid hardware with Polar which is a real loop oriented software (into RAM) but is a bit unstable and Live, but they wouldn't meet my expectations.
If you know how to overdub and trigger recording without touching the mouse or a midi controller, please let me know ASAP !
- overdub indefinitely
- trigger start or record by playing your instrument (as Polar - part of Digital Performer - can do after adjusting the amount of signal that will trigger recording)
That makes a BIG difference. Means to get the same results with Live, I would have to arm the track, hit play, edit my loop etc. instead of pushing a foot switch twice with my hands still on the instrument (double bass !). I did tried to avoid hardware with Polar which is a real loop oriented software (into RAM) but is a bit unstable and Live, but they wouldn't meet my expectations.
If you know how to overdub and trigger recording without touching the mouse or a midi controller, please let me know ASAP !
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Guest
don't know how to do that...sound like you've found the only way to do it--enjoy. I've yet to hear of anyone do looping without the obligatory two button presses (be it a midi pedal or whatever) on hardware (repeater, jam man, echoplex, boomerand, loop station, etc.) or hardware/software (Live). You can easily set up Live to operate five tracks on one 1010 bank, with rec arm and rec/playback patches for each of the five tracks. Hit one pedal to arm a track, hit the second to start recording. Hit the second pedal again to loop. yes, Live can't overdub, we know. But to want it to start recording based on volume of input signal--i dunno, you're definitely the first to ask for that. It seems like that would be more of a pain than anything--I find that musically, most of the loops I do Live have parts that sustain or bleed across the loop point. Having to be silent then, boom, it starts recording as soon as you hit a note? I think you're on your own there.
ARe you using Live's session view--its really easy to set up so that you can indeed trigger recording and looping on tracks with one midi note on/off button/pedal. "edit you loop" ???? I play bass too (double, 6 string, and fretless 4) and use them in conjuction with Live weekly for gigs, and have no problems using Live and a 1010 foot controller, hands-free operation is a breeze. Are you sure you're using Live the right way? You can definitely hands-free loop with Live and a foot controller, I do it all the time. Each loop requiers (at most) three foot patch presses--one pedal to arm the track, one to start record, hit the same one again to loop--it is actually quite simple. I have my basses, keys, and guitar each going into seperate ins on my soundcard, so I leave most of tracks armed and just turn op the volume when I grab a different instrument, then start looping.
Ryan
Ryan
ARe you using Live's session view--its really easy to set up so that you can indeed trigger recording and looping on tracks with one midi note on/off button/pedal. "edit you loop" ???? I play bass too (double, 6 string, and fretless 4) and use them in conjuction with Live weekly for gigs, and have no problems using Live and a 1010 foot controller, hands-free operation is a breeze. Are you sure you're using Live the right way? You can definitely hands-free loop with Live and a foot controller, I do it all the time. Each loop requiers (at most) three foot patch presses--one pedal to arm the track, one to start record, hit the same one again to loop--it is actually quite simple. I have my basses, keys, and guitar each going into seperate ins on my soundcard, so I leave most of tracks armed and just turn op the volume when I grab a different instrument, then start looping.
Ryan
Ryan
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Per Boysen
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There's a fourth foot pedal press to be done in Live as well: select the loop (clip) to start its playback. I wish there was a setting in Live that would have a recording start playing back the same moment as you stop recording (thus defining the clip length). Anyone come up with a tip for this?
For the "overdub recording" I experimented with VST plug-ins like the Lexicon PSP42 and Elottronix. You can do a lot of cool stuff with that! But to keep loops spinning in such an "overdubbable" plug-in you have to run it in full feedback mode, meaning every little noise you happen to produce goes into the loop. And there's no "undo".
I'm still hanging on to my hardware Echoplex, but I'm monitoring the software scene closely, waiting for something to come around
For the "overdub recording" I experimented with VST plug-ins like the Lexicon PSP42 and Elottronix. You can do a lot of cool stuff with that! But to keep loops spinning in such an "overdubbable" plug-in you have to run it in full feedback mode, meaning every little noise you happen to produce goes into the loop. And there's no "undo".
I'm still hanging on to my hardware Echoplex, but I'm monitoring the software scene closely, waiting for something to come around
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Guest
???? NO fourth pedal press here, no I was't lying or kidding. What are your preferences settings--mine are:
launch mode: trigger
loop/warp: auto
quant: global
warp mode: beats
clip update: 1/32
select on lauch: on
With these settings, I simply hit a pedal to start a track recording. I hit the pedal again at the end of my phrase, and it instanly loops--no loss in sound, no clicks, no dropouts, no shit. simple as that. I use phones for the click and do each of my tunes at a specific tempo. I set my global quantize to "bar" so that I can hit the foot pedal at anytime during a measure, and it will always start recording (or loop) at the next "one" (at the "bar" between measures). This makes life so much easier than having to perfectly nail both pedal presses (like on hardware units). If you don't want to deal with phones/click/tempo, set global quantization to "none". hit pedal to start recording, hit it again to loop--no loss in sound. Again, I'm not bullshitting, you can loop in Live with two presses of the same button, just like on hardware. It is simple.
Ryan
launch mode: trigger
loop/warp: auto
quant: global
warp mode: beats
clip update: 1/32
select on lauch: on
With these settings, I simply hit a pedal to start a track recording. I hit the pedal again at the end of my phrase, and it instanly loops--no loss in sound, no clicks, no dropouts, no shit. simple as that. I use phones for the click and do each of my tunes at a specific tempo. I set my global quantize to "bar" so that I can hit the foot pedal at anytime during a measure, and it will always start recording (or loop) at the next "one" (at the "bar" between measures). This makes life so much easier than having to perfectly nail both pedal presses (like on hardware units). If you don't want to deal with phones/click/tempo, set global quantization to "none". hit pedal to start recording, hit it again to loop--no loss in sound. Again, I'm not bullshitting, you can loop in Live with two presses of the same button, just like on hardware. It is simple.
Ryan
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Per Boysen
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Thanks, Ryan. I see that you are using "launch mode: trigger". That's the difference I used "toggle". I'll give it a try with "trigger" when I get back to Live (at the moment I'm producing recordings for a while, the "traditional" way). Trigger is also cool for using clips on a channel in legato mode.
BTW - you are wrong about quantizing recording input and looping on hardeware I'm doing exactly that on an Echoplex. But as far as I know that's the only hardware looping sampler that has a quantize function.
Another Echoplex function that I miss in Live is the ability to start recording and looping without having to set a tempo first. When running an Echoplex as midi clock master the tempo is calculated on the fly at the very moment that you stop recording and start looping what you did record.
And there are a lot of Live functions I would miss in the Echoplex if I should be using it alone, without Live - or a Repeater.
BTW - you are wrong about quantizing recording input and looping on hardeware
I'm doing exactly that on an Echoplex. But as far as I know that's the only hardware looping sampler that has a quantize function. Another Echoplex function that I miss in Live is the ability to start recording and looping without having to set a tempo first. When running an Echoplex as midi clock master the tempo is calculated on the fly at the very moment that you stop recording and start looping what you did record.
And there are a lot of Live functions I would miss in the Echoplex if I should be using it alone, without Live - or a Repeater.
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Guest
does the echoplex send click to phones and you preset tempos (doesn't sound like it), or just intrept your loop (whatever length it is) as four beats or eight beats and then divide the length of your clip by 4/8/whatever to determine the tempo? What happens if you're playing in 6/8,3/4, 11/8 etc.? I guess I don't understand what type of quantization the echoplex does--without telling it the tempo and time signature and hearing a click, how could it quantize the pedal press like the "bar" setting does in Live (i.e. hit the foot pedal at anytime during a measure, not hitting it precisely at the right moment)? Can it do that? Or by quantize, do you mean that it calculates a tempo after you create your first loop?
Big differences to me, the pressure of having to literally perfectly hit the pedal twice while trying to properly play the the phase that you're trying to record is a challenge. I prefer to concentrate more on my playing, and hit my foot pedal when its convenient. It is really hard to get truly tempo perfect loops that line up with a single tempo when you have to hit the pedal perfectly twice. There is usually a tiny bit of extra length, or a tiny bit not enough length, but after it keeps looping over and over, it becomes noticable against a click or other steady tempo-fixed source. But I hear you, your echoplex plus Live set up is sweet, and provides the best of all worlds for you (and sounds great too!). I just wanted to let people know that Live can indeed be used exclusively for live looping, and can do it with two pedal presses, just like hardware. It seems like a lot of posts here recently have been to the contrary, but its just a matter of setting up Live and your controller properly, trust me, it can be done.
Ryan
Ryan
Big differences to me, the pressure of having to literally perfectly hit the pedal twice while trying to properly play the the phase that you're trying to record is a challenge. I prefer to concentrate more on my playing, and hit my foot pedal when its convenient. It is really hard to get truly tempo perfect loops that line up with a single tempo when you have to hit the pedal perfectly twice. There is usually a tiny bit of extra length, or a tiny bit not enough length, but after it keeps looping over and over, it becomes noticable against a click or other steady tempo-fixed source. But I hear you, your echoplex plus Live set up is sweet, and provides the best of all worlds for you (and sounds great too!). I just wanted to let people know that Live can indeed be used exclusively for live looping, and can do it with two pedal presses, just like hardware. It seems like a lot of posts here recently have been to the contrary, but its just a matter of setting up Live and your controller properly, trust me, it can be done.
Ryan
Ryan
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montrealbreaks
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Guest
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Per Boysen
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Sure it can be done. I've personally done public clinics with just Live, laptop and instruments using a FCB1010. It's a very good set-up!Anonymous wrote: trust me, it can be done.
I'll try to explain the Echoplex way to midi clock sync a little better (sorry, for being unclear) since it's actually vers smart. If run as the midi master it goes like this - you play an instrument and press the record button. The EDP starts recording and keeps on recording until you do another action. This does not have to be stepping the record button again to stop recording and start looping. It can as well be stepping the multiply button. What then happens is that the a loop point is set on the fly (this chunk of recorded audio is called "a cycle"). The cycle repeats (it "loops") while you remain in recording mode and the things you now play with your instrument will be overdubbed into the looping audio. The number of cycles is your choice, it will keep on looping the orinal cycle while layering your live audio on top of it until you press the "multiply" button another time. OR take some other action (he, he... can see you ppl starting scratsching your heads here, LOL).
Well, let's say you simply stepped the multiply button a second time. This will stop the cycle from repeating and also stop recording and leave you with a long loop made up of a number of cycles (your first "loop") and layered on top of those - your last live playing.
Now, let's say that you did not end that first cycle by stepping the multiply button. You may have used the overdub button. In this case you would simply starte overdubbing into the same loop, a new layer for each loop round. The length of "a cycle" and "a loop" now being the same.
The way to just stop recording and have the recording start looping is to step the record button a second time. This is the simples action (and I should really have started out with that one.... oh well)
If you should stepp the reverse button the long loop (with your number of cycles + long melody line layered) will now start playing back reversed - but not in recording mode. If you then press the overdub button you can keep on playing stuff, layering it into the reversed audio. If you should step on the reverse button a second time the original cycled loop + first overdub will play back straight while your last (second overdub) will play reversed. Cool, isn't it!
MIDI CLOCK SYNCIN
(piewh, finally....) Ok. There is a setting called "8th/cycle" and this can be set to any value between 1 and 128. The EDP does not give an audioble click but a led light is flashing the referance clock. If "8th/cycle" is set to 8 there will be ONE BIG FLASH and seven tiny flashes that corresponds to "one bar" as midi clock understands it (and as Live run as a slav interprets it). If you want to play in let's say 5/4 you can set the "8th/cycle" to 5 or 10. Then you get ONE BIG FLASCH and nine tiny flashes
Well you can figure the rest... just about any odd timing measure is reachable. A cool thing with using the EDP as the master is that the "8th/clock" can be changed on the fly - thus kicking synced gear into a different tempo. A very cool feature. It's similar to changing the Live sample "original tempo" setting. But in Live you can only change i in multiples of 2.
QUANTIZATION
Quantization in the EDP means the same as in Live: the timing for your actions to getting impied on the audio. The simplest action here is to change loop (you can record 16 loops and jump between them). There are also stuff like "insert" that can be automized. When running the Echoplex as a slave i find it very funny to insert extremely short quantized values. If set to 128 you can insert a 128th note that will either be layerd on top of existing audio or substituting existing audie. With the substitute setting this a very cool way to "glitch up" a loop. Like in the example http://www.looproom.com/audio/edp_strat_01.mp3 (one live guitar first-take getting looped and fucked up by itself, all in realtime. Drum loop pre recorded of course)
Usually, for changing loop, I too like the one bar setting. Both with Live and the EDP.
Last edited by Per Boysen on Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Per Boysen
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ha, ha... funny to find these old postings! I too had a Repeater but sold it one and a half year ago. Today I rarely touch my Echoplex either since I do most live looping in Möbius http://www.zonemobius.com/. Sometimes only the Möbius standalone and sometimes Möbius VST in Live with eight looping channels output through eight Live channels. Here's what it sounds like when playing a flute live, looping it in real-time, cutting it up and stuff with Möbius http://www.looproom.com/audio/mobjam4mix.mp3 (everything exept drums created in real-time with a flute). I love that software!
I too had a Repeater but sold it one and a half year ago. Today I rarely touch my Echoplex either since I do most live looping in Möbius http://www.zonemobius.com/. Sometimes only the Möbius standalone and sometimes Möbius VST in Live with eight looping channels output through eight Live channels. Here's what it sounds like when playing a flute live, looping it in real-time, cutting it up and stuff with Möbius http://www.looproom.com/audio/mobjam4mix.mp3 (everything exept drums created in real-time with a flute). I love that software!