Live 6 & Apple Loops Doubling

earsmack · Post by **earsmack** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:39 am

I'm running Live 6.0.1 on a Mac and previewing 70s Ballad Piano 01.aif (and just about any other Apple Loop) and the audio is doubling. It's like there are two people playing piano a few milliseconds apart. If you drag the (Apple) loop into a track (and turn off the monitor for the track) it still doubles. This happens on multiple machines through built-in audio and a MOTU 828 and only with Apple Loops. Also, if you open the actual Apple Loop (aif) file in Quicktime player (for instance) it plays fine. Only Live adds this doubling effect. Any thoughts as to why this is happening? Is it a bug?

woodman1200 · Post by **woodman1200** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:10 pm

Not a bug. I use Apple loops all the time in 6 and have had no problems. I usually have the track set to "auto" and it works fine.

You will hear doubling if you are recording and listening to your source and track at the same time though.

Make sure you don't have any audio effects (like delay) on the track or in the sends. Also make sure that the audio in the loop track isn't being routed to another track. Try the mute & solo buttons to track down the problem.

Good luck,

earsmack · Post by **earsmack** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:55 pm

Hey woodman,

I'm not so sure it's not a bug. It happens when I preview an Apple Loop (ie: it's not in a track yet). I can launch Live and then immediately click on an Apple Loop (in the file browser) and it will double the sample. I even turned the default single audio track to OFF instead of AUTO and it makes no difference.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:09 pm

This doesn't happen to me.

You must have some routing problem or setting messed up. what's your default warp mode?

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:12 pm

listening to a clip preview and the same clip in session at the same time maybe?

earsmack · Post by **earsmack** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:30 pm

No listening in session...like I said...launch Live and immediately click on an Apple Loop in the file browser to preview it. No other data on any track. Very strange that it happens on two machines...I'll have to dig apart my audio routing and see if there is anything happening but I'm not sure what it would be. Only Apple Loops seem to have this problem. Thanks for the advice.

chrisedmo · Post by **chrisedmo** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:02 pm

earsmack wrote:No listening in session...like I said...launch Live and immediately click on an Apple Loop in the file browser to preview it. No other data on any track. Very strange that it happens on two machines...I'll have to dig apart my audio routing and see if there is anything happening but I'm not sure what it would be. Only Apple Loops seem to have this problem. Thanks for the advice.

I have this too!! I tried it after i read this post.. It only seems to do it on the Piano type stuff.. the apple drum loops seem fine..

The only thing i can think of is that i remember that when i used to bring a sample that was different bit rate or sample rate it would do that.. However if you set the warp mode to repitch - its fine!!??

Very Strange.

earsmack · Post by **earsmack** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:24 am

chrisedmo wrote: I have this too!! I tried it after i read this post.. It only seems to do it on the Piano type stuff.. the apple drum loops seem fine..

The only thing i can think of is that i remember that when i used to bring a sample that was different bit rate or sample rate it would do that.. However if you set the warp mode to repitch - its fine!!??

Very Strange.

Thank God I'm not alone

I'll try messing with the warp setting and also I wonder if I need to nuke all my asd (or whatever) files that Live generates for those samples. They might be from Live 5 - maybe Live 6 regenerating them would help.

earsmack · Post by **earsmack** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:31 am

Sure enough - setting default warp mode to repitch makes it work. Interesting. Someone else asked about warp mode setting earlier...thanks to that person as well.

woodman1200 · Post by **woodman1200** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:31 pm

It occurs to me that what you described as doubling might actually be something else.

Just for shits & giggles, try this:

1. Set your default warp mode back to beats.

2. Preview your piano loop. It should sound like the doubling you described.

3. Now, adjust your tempo up or down and see if the doubling changes or goes away. I'm willing to bet you'll notice a difference.

See, I think what you may be hearing is the way the warp engine works. Pianos have complex and delicate harmonics that are easily upset. Warping beats for drums is usually ok because of it's transient nature, but I find it does not work well for complex sustained sounds.

I believe the apple loops were recorded at a different tempo then you are playing them back at. This is why repitch mode is working.

I changed the tempo of a song my wife sang on (good, clean recording in beats mode) and it completely destroyed the liquid & natural sound. I'm still tweaking it to sound mostly right, but I had to use a mix of beats, texture & complex modes in the arrangement view to make it better.

Good luck,