instead of arrange view, use session view and the FOLLOW ACTIONs.
what version of Live are you using? maybe I can post something tonight for you (I'm pretty beat after work, bear with me)
Scale question
I'm using 6. The thing about clip length and follow actions is that they require some setting up and aren't as spontaneous so I was hoping to avoid them. But thanks for the feedback.DeadlyKungFu wrote:instead of arrange view, use session view and the FOLLOW ACTIONs.
what version of Live are you using? maybe I can post something tonight for you (I'm pretty beat after work, bear with me)
Ok, so here it is. [Sorry, long post]
I can't seem to export/save/restore a midi clip that does not contain notes. I can create a midi clip that has a short as possible C-2 at midi vel 1, so I have effectively a dummy midi clip.
Next problem -- the only clip automations I seem to be able to export/save/restore are the control change and standard midi envelopes. When I try to save a so called dummy midi clip with a scale effect envelope modulation, it does not work. The envelope modifications are reset to zero.
This wrecks my idea of having a bank of dummy midi clips in the library, named by scale, that can be dragged into arrange view and dragged to length to build a song that would be playable in real time. Too bad.
I did find that one could use the dummy midi clips in arrange view with the scale effect envelope modulations and set up a song that could be played but there were a couple things to work out.
First, you have to have overdub off.
Second, the Scale Map 0 - Map 11 correspond to the individual semitones, not complete scale maps as I had previously assumed. The envelopes are unusual in that they range from 0 to +/- 50%. Even more odd is that the envelopes have a different range depending on the semitone you are working on. For example, raising the envelope of Map 2 by 26% might raise you up 2 semitones whereas on a different Map or semitone it would raise you either 1 or 3 semitones.
By trial and error, with play enabled so as to hear the effect, I was able to construct a dummy midi clip with Scale maps 0-11 modulated to create a dom 7 scale pattern. This is superimposed on the regular scale effect pattern whenever the clip is fired. With base of zero for this clip, I labeled it C7.
Next, I dragged it over 4 bars. Then copied and pasted to next 2 bars and upped the base to the IV7. This was labeled F7 and given a new color. I continued on until I had the standard rock blues progression looping.
In practice, the way this works is that you are in arrangement view and see what looks like a 12 bar blues labelled with chord progressions. You hit play and nothing happens. Then you start playing some notes and notice that any note you play that is not in the scale for the current chord is modified so that it fits.
I think I can work around not being able to save the clips in the library. What I'll do is save them all to a non-playing track. That way they'll be saveable and available for copy/pasting.
I can't seem to export/save/restore a midi clip that does not contain notes. I can create a midi clip that has a short as possible C-2 at midi vel 1, so I have effectively a dummy midi clip.
Next problem -- the only clip automations I seem to be able to export/save/restore are the control change and standard midi envelopes. When I try to save a so called dummy midi clip with a scale effect envelope modulation, it does not work. The envelope modifications are reset to zero.
This wrecks my idea of having a bank of dummy midi clips in the library, named by scale, that can be dragged into arrange view and dragged to length to build a song that would be playable in real time. Too bad.
I did find that one could use the dummy midi clips in arrange view with the scale effect envelope modulations and set up a song that could be played but there were a couple things to work out.
First, you have to have overdub off.
Second, the Scale Map 0 - Map 11 correspond to the individual semitones, not complete scale maps as I had previously assumed. The envelopes are unusual in that they range from 0 to +/- 50%. Even more odd is that the envelopes have a different range depending on the semitone you are working on. For example, raising the envelope of Map 2 by 26% might raise you up 2 semitones whereas on a different Map or semitone it would raise you either 1 or 3 semitones.
By trial and error, with play enabled so as to hear the effect, I was able to construct a dummy midi clip with Scale maps 0-11 modulated to create a dom 7 scale pattern. This is superimposed on the regular scale effect pattern whenever the clip is fired. With base of zero for this clip, I labeled it C7.
Next, I dragged it over 4 bars. Then copied and pasted to next 2 bars and upped the base to the IV7. This was labeled F7 and given a new color. I continued on until I had the standard rock blues progression looping.
In practice, the way this works is that you are in arrangement view and see what looks like a 12 bar blues labelled with chord progressions. You hit play and nothing happens. Then you start playing some notes and notice that any note you play that is not in the scale for the current chord is modified so that it fits.
I think I can work around not being able to save the clips in the library. What I'll do is save them all to a non-playing track. That way they'll be saveable and available for copy/pasting.
Smart Chord Midi Effect (was Scale Question)
One final twist on this.
I play a wind controller (EWI) and have been kicking this around as an idea to get more interesting polyphony out of the instrument.
By putting the Chord Midi Effect in front of the modulated scale effect, you get chords that better fit with the music, as opposed to a dumb static diatonic harmony.
I'm just not sure what to do about the passing notes that aren't in the scale.
I play a wind controller (EWI) and have been kicking this around as an idea to get more interesting polyphony out of the instrument.
By putting the Chord Midi Effect in front of the modulated scale effect, you get chords that better fit with the music, as opposed to a dumb static diatonic harmony.
I'm just not sure what to do about the passing notes that aren't in the scale.
maps 0 -11 are the little squares which define how each note will be re-mapped.
i think the map 0-11 parameters could be a good way to go
i just experimented a bit -
setting a map parameter to +50% will transpose that note up 1 semitone and naturally down 1 for -50% - it must be set all the way to 50% or it won't have any effect.
doing it this way means that you can set the envelope for each map note with a duration spanning the entire clip (i.e. just drag the entire line, don't make any break points) - so it should be nice when resizing
i just did a basic test of this and it works - you don't need midiyoke or anything. you just need to take the time to program the midi clips
depending on how you're working you might want to use 2 or 3 midi tracks - by separating the input, scaling FX, post-FX midi, and instrument tracks, you might keep some useful options open...
this is a great idea, i might actually program myself some clips, although i feel like i ought to practice the scales instead
i think the map 0-11 parameters could be a good way to go
i just experimented a bit -
setting a map parameter to +50% will transpose that note up 1 semitone and naturally down 1 for -50% - it must be set all the way to 50% or it won't have any effect.
doing it this way means that you can set the envelope for each map note with a duration spanning the entire clip (i.e. just drag the entire line, don't make any break points) - so it should be nice when resizing
i just did a basic test of this and it works - you don't need midiyoke or anything. you just need to take the time to program the midi clips
depending on how you're working you might want to use 2 or 3 midi tracks - by separating the input, scaling FX, post-FX midi, and instrument tracks, you might keep some useful options open...
this is a great idea, i might actually program myself some clips, although i feel like i ought to practice the scales instead
it is totally possible. i'm confused a bit by your post because it starts off saying you're bummed because it won't work and then later it seems you've got it going.mdifazio wrote:
This wrecks my idea of having a bank of dummy midi clips in the library, named by scale, that can be dragged into arrange view and dragged to length to build a song that would be playable in real time. Too bad.
longjohns wrote:it is totally possible. i'm confused a bit by your post because it starts off saying you're bummed because it won't work and then later it seems you've got it going.mdifazio wrote:
This wrecks my idea of having a bank of dummy midi clips in the library, named by scale, that can be dragged into arrange view and dragged to length to build a song that would be playable in real time. Too bad.
Sorry 'bout that. Yeah, it totally works as a workaround. I'm actually pretty excited about it.
I wanted to provide a sense of how I got to where I am, and also to gripe a little about the clip save issue.
Ok, some further experimentation, and I've got this working, exactly how you first described it I think--
I've got saved midi clips in the browser, which I can drag into the arrangement view, and resize, which are controlling the scale plugin
It's true that the map parameter % is strange - I don't understand why it's behaving this way, but it's easy enough to find the correct % for each note. My best guess is that the closer a note is to the center of the scale (i.e. F#) then the less of a % you apply to that note to move it 1 semi. (My first experiment happened to be with a B, which is fine with a full 50%)
For good measure, I've put in the c-2 @ velocity 1, in case that is indeed needed (never tried without it so I can't really say)
You may have had some trouble by trying to drag these clips onto tracks which contained other devices. Remember that the .alc file type will not bring in it's effects if there are already devices on the track, and if it cannot bring in it's scale effect, then the clip will have it's scale envelopes removed (I think this is what happened to you?)
so currently I'm using 3 midi tracks:
one is for input only (so I could record the raw midi if I wanted to)
the second contains the scale plugin and this is where the control clips are placed.
the third recieves the processed Midi and contains the instrument. This is where I can record the post-FX Midi
Having the separate Midi input track is not necessary. You can have Midi input on the scale control track. I just feel more comfortable having them separated. For example, you don't really have to worry about the overdub button because you're not recording any midi on the control track.
I've got saved midi clips in the browser, which I can drag into the arrangement view, and resize, which are controlling the scale plugin
It's true that the map parameter % is strange - I don't understand why it's behaving this way, but it's easy enough to find the correct % for each note. My best guess is that the closer a note is to the center of the scale (i.e. F#) then the less of a % you apply to that note to move it 1 semi. (My first experiment happened to be with a B, which is fine with a full 50%)
For good measure, I've put in the c-2 @ velocity 1, in case that is indeed needed (never tried without it so I can't really say)
You may have had some trouble by trying to drag these clips onto tracks which contained other devices. Remember that the .alc file type will not bring in it's effects if there are already devices on the track, and if it cannot bring in it's scale effect, then the clip will have it's scale envelopes removed (I think this is what happened to you?)
so currently I'm using 3 midi tracks:
one is for input only (so I could record the raw midi if I wanted to)
the second contains the scale plugin and this is where the control clips are placed.
the third recieves the processed Midi and contains the instrument. This is where I can record the post-FX Midi
Having the separate Midi input track is not necessary. You can have Midi input on the scale control track. I just feel more comfortable having them separated. For example, you don't really have to worry about the overdub button because you're not recording any midi on the control track.
Bless you.longjohns wrote: You may have had some trouble by trying to drag these clips onto tracks which contained other devices. Remember that the .alc file type will not bring in it's effects if there are already devices on the track, and if it cannot bring in it's scale effect, then the clip will have it's scale envelopes removed (I think this is what happened to you?).
Okay, so if I want to assemble usable chords from a monophonic instrument, how would you handle the passing notes?
I was thinking let them sound (obviously) and build up the nearest adjacent chord. Just not sure how that would sound. What the hell, throw a little random on the additional voices and no one will know.
I don't quite understand what you're after yet. If there is a chord plug in front of the scale plug, won't any notes outside of the scale be automatically remapped?
Am I understanding that you want to still be able to play the passing tones, but just filter them out in terms of what's used to create the chords (?)
Am I understanding that you want to still be able to play the passing tones, but just filter them out in terms of what's used to create the chords (?)
By the way, I just got done with Major and melodic minor modes in C. I'm going to get together M/m pentatonics, M/m blues, harmonic minor....
I guess also whole tone, diminished, and auxiliary diminished
I think that would about cover it for useful jazz scales, unless anybody has more suggestions.
I'm thinking of putting this set up on the web so that people can DL the clips...
I guess also whole tone, diminished, and auxiliary diminished
I think that would about cover it for useful jazz scales, unless anybody has more suggestions.
I'm thinking of putting this set up on the web so that people can DL the clips...
That would be great. What a time saver. Obviously don't worry too much about other keys, you can just move the base for those.longjohns wrote:By the way, I just got done with Major and melodic minor modes in C. I'm going to get together M/m pentatonics, M/m blues, harmonic minor....
I guess also whole tone, diminished, and auxiliary diminished
I think that would about cover it for useful jazz scales, unless anybody has more suggestions.
I'm thinking of putting this set up on the web so that people can DL the clips...
What I am going for here is to be able to play polyphonic music from a monophonic instrument. So that even if I play a note that is not in the scale of the current measure, that note will sound as I played it, yet an appropriate chord will be built around it.
You can do this currently with the chord effect, but it restricted to fixed intervals.
If I were playing a sax sample for example, it might sound as if a saxophone section part had been arranged to follow my lead -- not that I would use this concept for anything so obvious.
One nice use of scale plugin:
slice a beat into 8 and assign each slice to a different pad in impulse.
make a midi track that plays the slices in thier original order (ie a C major scale on 8th notes)
Use a scale plugin to change the order of the slices.
slice a beat into 8 and assign each slice to a different pad in impulse.
make a midi track that plays the slices in thier original order (ie a C major scale on 8th notes)
Use a scale plugin to change the order of the slices.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"